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Old 13-03-2013, 11:43   #91
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Re: Getting discouraged

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Originally Posted by bluemoose View Post
End of summer is a great time to get a boat in the Great Lakes, and I'm surprised no one else seems to think that the lack of salt corrosion for a $10-20k boat (which will be at least 20 years old) isn't worth at least considering. The reason I harp on this is while searching for my own boat I looked in the GL region, DelMarVa, and FL. Boats in that price range in FL were rougher (anecdotal, my sample population was small); the sun and salt seemed to really beat these older boat's hardware into submission...
The other benefit of a GL boat is that it likely only sees use four to six months out of each year. Most GL boats get no use during the colder months, so they're exposed to a lot less wear-and-tear. Just make sure the boat never fell off its cradle during a winter storm .
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:56   #92
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Re: Getting discouraged

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As our budget is small we'd assume that a private sale would be better than using a broker...
False assumption, in my opinion. The broker fee is paid by the seller, not you. Now, some will tell you that a seller who isn't paying a broker fee will give you a better price, and there may be times when it works out that way, but it is way far from a sure thing.

What's more, the impression that I get is that the serious sellers (at least in this price range and up) employ brokers. Those who want to try to sell it themselves first always seem to be the people asking more than the boat is worth, and being difficult when it comes to scheduling a viewing, survey, etc. And just like with FSBO homes, FSBO boats seem to end up either being taken off the market, because the seller never was very serious, or being listed with a broker when the seller finally gets serious.

It certainly doesn't hurt to consider FSBO boats, but I would definitely recommend that you also consider boats offered by brokers.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:16   #93
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Re: Getting discouraged

No doubt about the difference between a fresh water boat and one that has lived in salt water. Many freshwater boats that are 25 years old look much better than a 10 year old boat kept in salt water. Smaller boats can easily be trailered so its always an option. I trailered a 30 foot sailboat from Ontario to the B.C. coast 30 years ago with my half ton just added a transmission cooler, no problems.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:40   #94
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Re: Getting discouraged

Broker commissions are generally a percentage, so a cheaper boat carries a lighter load. OTOH, a good broker has access and knowledge to a very wide range of boats, including on/off market boats, and has insight to sellers and situations that you do not have access to yourself. As a result, using a broker can be less expensive than attempting to negotiate the market on your own - especially in this price range where the commission is quite low.
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Old 13-03-2013, 13:05   #95
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Re: Getting discouraged

brokers get 10 percent or 3000 dollars, whichever is highest. i know ed a broker for my ericson 35m II when i was actively trying to sell her.

there is a 31 mariner ketch in decent condition here in zihuatenejo. for sale by owner, a usa citizen with a usa documented boat. something to consider, as papers for boats purchased out side of usa can be difficult to obtain. this mariner is being sold for a reasonable cheap price--under 10k. the mizzen is still standing, so the deck is not rotted. boat has not been n]abandoned --is with some pelican pooo, but that washes right off....the owner is cpt for a charter here.
anything CAN be done--is whether you DO it or not that is up to you.
good fortune an d happy sails.
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Old 13-03-2013, 13:46   #96
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Re: Getting discouraged

From your original post, it seems that you are only looking for positive encouragement where you only want to hear what you want to hear... not exactly a totally great idea, but I'll offer some good advice with will possibly make you think about what your're doing.

You will obviously be looking at older boats 20-30 years old in order to fall into your price range. If you buy a $20K yacht, plan on spending $10k to repair and/or retrofit the items you missed during the initial survey. Otherwise, you'll be surprised.

Safety equipment: Some, maybe most will think one or all of the following items aren't necessities.... we do, especially in the Pacific ocean north of San Diego, CA; and they don't come cheap.

1. life raft
2. survival suits for each member on board
3. GPS chartplotter or ipad
4. newer VHF x2 masthead antenna & handheld
5. Good oversized anchor and chain rode
6. shelter in the cockpit (dodger as a minimum along with a bimini preferred)
7. complete engine service and spares on board
8. EPIRB

If the boat you intend to purchase doesn't have any of these items, plan on spending an additional $5000-$7000 on these essentials.

You see how the cruising budget can quickly get away from you?

Good luck.
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Old 13-03-2013, 14:17   #97
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Re: Getting discouraged

See: Nor'Sea 27 , then google around checking for what peopple are asking for theirs.

Join the Norsea Owner's Group NorSea27 : NorSea 27 Email DIscussion List and while I haven't read the thread yet myself, you may get some useful information here: Nor'sea Aft Cabin 27'

I've taken mine just shy of total global circumnavigations twice. Stopped in Galveston, Texas.

Good luck and follow your dreams!

armido
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Old 13-03-2013, 14:17   #98
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Re: Getting discouraged

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Safety equipment: Some, maybe most will think one or all of the following items aren't necessities.... we do, especially in the Pacific ocean north of San Diego, CA; and they don't come cheap.

1. life raft
2. survival suits for each member on board
3. GPS chartplotter or ipad
4. newer VHF x2 masthead antenna & handheld
5. Good oversized anchor and chain rode
6. shelter in the cockpit (dodger as a minimum along with a bimini preferred)
7. complete engine service and spares on board
8. EPIRB

If the boat you intend to purchase doesn't have any of these items, plan on spending an additional $5000-$7000 on these essentials.

You see how the cruising budget can quickly get away from you?

Good luck.
I agree with your general points, especially on how budget can quickly get away from someone.......and I do hesitate to say that any of your list are not needed, especially by someone starting out, as that can easily come back to bite me on the bum!.....

.....But nonetheless I would argue that the items I have highlighted in red are not actually "safety" items, they are "rescue" equipment - which may be very useful!, but only if you need rescuing! - safety is about prevention not helping with a cure.

IMO if choices have to be made due to budget I would go for the other items on your list first. A dodger (sprayhood) over an EPIRB?! yeah, as being less cold and wet and tired means far less likely to make a decision that results in a need to use an EPIRB - don't guarantee it, but less likely. Besides an EPIRB is not a "magic" cure for all problems - just damned useful if needed!..........boats is all about choices, and sometimes less than ideal ones.
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Old 13-03-2013, 14:39   #99
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Re: Getting discouraged

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
1. life raft
2. survival suits for each member on board
3. GPS chartplotter or ipad
4. newer VHF x2 masthead antenna & handheld
5. Good oversized anchor and chain rode
6. shelter in the cockpit (dodger as a minimum along with a bimini preferred)
7. complete engine service and spares on board
8. EPIRB
Now that someone more experienced has weighed in -

I feel this is excessive in terms of "necessary" equipment. As your travel becomes dodgier and more technically complex, more and more of the above equipment becomes necessary.

But if you are "blue sky" sailor hanging out in mostly easy anchorages very close to sandy shorelines, you won't need all that equipment - or any of it, depending on the choices you make in regard to your location and command of your boat.
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:19   #100
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Re: Getting discouraged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
From your original post, it seems that you are only looking for positive encouragement where you only want to hear what you want to hear... not exactly a totally great idea, but I'll offer some good advice with will possibly make you think about what your're doing.

You will obviously be looking at older boats 20-30 years old in order to fall into your price range. If you buy a $20K yacht, plan on spending $10k to repair and/or retrofit the items you missed during the initial survey. Otherwise, you'll be surprised.

Safety equipment: Some, maybe most will think one or all of the following items aren't necessities.... we do, especially in the Pacific ocean north of San Diego, CA; and they don't come cheap.

(1. life raft)
(2. survival suits for each member on board)
3. GPS (+chartplotter or ipad)
4. newer VHF (x2) masthead antenna & handheld
5. Good oversized anchor and chain rode
(6. shelter in the cockpit (dodger as a minimum along with a bimini preferred))
(7. complete engine service and spares on board)
(8. EPIRB)

If the boat you intend to purchase doesn't have any of these items, plan on spending an additional $5000-$7000 on these essentials. RODL

You see how the cruising budget can quickly get away from you?

Good luck.
LOOK AT ME. I DIDNT HAVE ANY OF THE STUFF IN PARENTHESES. I SO DIDNT DIE.

and i sailed the pacific from san diego to 2000 miles south of there, zihuatenejo, granted in jumps, but i did sail 2000 miles sans all that stuff.
isnt the stuff, is how one manages the stuff
you can have all the bells and whistles but not know how to manage it--or you can sail with a low budget, no stuff, and kinda know what youre doing and not get into trouble by being moderately conservative when out and about.

btw--most of the stuff can be found on ebay in usa easily enough for a fraction of the chandlery pricing

more practical and reliable than the life raft is the dinghy with tarps and such to cover it .....
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:21   #101
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Re: Getting discouraged

I don't really believe it is possible to debate the issue withou some stepping on other's toes, so I'll keep it short and sweet.

Do not leave your berth without an EPIRB! You can always throw on more clothes and defend from the rain. If your out when it's snowing you should probably have your head examined.

One more thing, dodgers and an excess of canvas can block the free flow of air significantly when at anchor or moored. The consequence is a too warm cockpit area and claustrophobia.

Believe me, for what folks spend on canvas you could buy a ssb, vhf, EPIRB and much more for an equivalent amount.

Be safe first!

armido
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:23   #102
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ROFLMAO....
Some folk don't travel much...
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:26   #103
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Re: Getting discouraged

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Originally Posted by armido View Post
I don't really believe it is possible to debate the issue withou some stepping on other's toes, so I'll keep it short and sweet.

Do not leave your berth without an EPIRB! You can always throw on more clothes and defend from the rain. If your out when it's snowing you should probably have your head examined.

One more thing, dodgers and an excess of canvas can block the free flow of air significantly when at anchor or moored. The consequence is a too warm cockpit area and claustrophobia.

Believe me, for what folks spend on canvas you could buy a ssb, vhf, EPIRB and much more for an equivalent amount.

Be safe first!

armido


rodlmao





we are each sailing with that with which we so wish to sail.

are you out here??

are you going to legislature to make a law????

as for a dodger making a cockpit too hot--try sailing out here in tropics and then tell me what is going to make my head sweat.

thankyou for reporting in. i feel safer already.
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:46   #104
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Re: Getting discouraged

Zeenag,

Did I say no protection from the elements is necessary, particularly the sun. An inexpensive cover made of inexpensive material can be fit to cover the cockpit and other areas to block the sun.

And, oh yeah - I've sailed in areas close to the equator for years, for many, many miles without a dodger. But, I've had a simple cover at all times to protect against the sun.

armido
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Old 13-03-2013, 15:48   #105
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Zeenag,

Did I say no protection from the elements is necessary, particularly the sun. An inexpensive cover made of inexpensive material can be fit to cover the cockpit and other areas to block the sun.

And, oh yeah - I've sailed in areas close to the equator for years, for many, many miles without a dodger. But, I've had a simple cover at all times to protect against the sun.

armido
Boom tent or Umbrella... just curious...
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