Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's impressive. They ran that little boat THREE TIMES onto the rocks at full speed!

And keep in mind that the little Dehler is an ultra cheap mass produced boat.

This proves that even cheap boats can have a solid keel attachment, if the engineering is done right.

For those who don't understand German -- the narrator claimed that there were not even hairline cracks in the keel-hull joint.

I don't speak German, but it didn't look like the keel ever hit the platform or the rocks, just the line with the floats.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by contrail

I don't speak German, but it didn't look like the keel ever hit the platform or the rocks, just the line with the floats.

another question I had was in the video they didn't show the hull keel joint on the leading edge lwl to hull joint just the stern of the keel at the hull joint.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's impressive. They ran that little boat THREE TIMES onto the rocks at full speed!

And keep in mind that the little Dehler is an ultra cheap mass produced boat.

This proves that even cheap boats can have a solid keel attachment, if the engineering is done right.

For those who don't understand German -- the narrator claimed that there were not even hairline cracks in the keel-hull joint.

Not sure it proves much, maybe its strong against impact but weak against long term effects of fatigue and crevis corrosion ?

Also, remembering most boats are more seaworthy than their crew, a small, modern light-weight boat may not look after you so well in heavy weather.

[double u]

I don' t recall that they were "bottom-line-
-cheap" these dehlers...
anything that could be made from grp was, so that lowered the price (& the appeal of the "fitout" ), but they were first rate designs (E.G.Van de Stadt) & the hulls were heat-post-cured, not all that widespread in the late 70ies.
circumnavigation in an Optima 92:
https://www.amazon.de/immer-wieder-l...s=friedel+klee
(for the karautophiles...)
another:
Circumnavigation in stages —
todays Dehlers btw are built by Hanse...
https://www.yachts.group/dehler/de/startseite.html

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by double u

I don' t recall that they were "bottom-line-
-cheap" these dehlers...
anything that could be made from grp was, so that lowered the price (& the appeal of the "fitout" ), but they were first rate designs (E.G.Van de Stadt) & the hulls were heat-post-cured, not all that widespread in the late 70ies.
circumnavigation in an Optima 92:
https://www.amazon.de/immer-wieder-l...s=friedel+klee
(for the karautophiles...)
another:
Circumnavigation in stages —
todays Dehlers btw are built by Hanse...
https://www.yachts.group/dehler/de/startseite.html

And.. would it still be as strong 20 and more years after they were built.. methinks the OP was talking older boats as opposed to just off the line.

[double u]

I meant the "old" dehlers were above average quality. the new hanse/dehlers? no idea...

[newhaul]

I know my '63 columbia is just as strong as the day she was new . ( but they are built like tanks )

[rbk]

I recently saw video of a racer in the Sydney, Rolex or some race I can’t rememeber that got stuck on an uncharted rock shortly after leaving the harbor. They spent half the day or more getting off and a decent amount of damage on a massive lever, 12-14 I think but a quick patch and they were back in the race a day or two later. While they have copious amount of funding and crack teams of skilled trades available those boats are built to the bare minimum (even out of carbon) to cut down on weight and for them to take the punishment they do with such a light build/cutting edge build, I don’t think it takes much more material to make a very strong layup even if the build quality is questionable. I know racers employ high tech practices etc but my point being that if they can push the limits to the extreme on every level, your average cruiser with a heavier build will very likely never come close to the limits of their build even poorly made ones; maintenance aside.

[Don C L]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but the Yankee 26 had a keel stub that I always thought looked pretty smart for increasing the strength of a bolted-on keel. Rather than straight across it was stepped which I assume was to give it greater strength when slamming things; the stub would be taking the brunt of the impact, not the shear strength of the bolts and a straight joint. There are other boats that did something like that, but can't think of one now...
YANKEE 26 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
Sparkman & Stephens: Design 2065-C1 - Yankee 26

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by contrail

I don't speak German, but it didn't look like the keel ever hit the platform or the rocks, just the line with the floats.

What do you think they hit at 04:30 and 06:00 ?

Pete

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Pete7

What do you think they hit at 04:30 and 06:00 ?

Pete

It did not look like they hit with the keel, rather the stem, was what I was pointing out. Obviously, they did catch the keel on the line with the floats, but that would not have been a big deal.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

I'm not on a $6k budget. That's just all I have off hand at the moment. I still have half a year of work income I can set aside the next few months. Plus if I sell my Grampian there is a tiny amount of money there. The sale of my house will be a big determining factor in my overall budget. I just can't fully depend on ducks that haven't hatched. My house could sell fast or sell very slow in which I may have to keep it and rent it out. Either way I'll sort those details. Just right now and over the next couple months I can probably only put between $6-10k towards a boat and getting it here or to the coast. Pending that the next couple months I'll be allocating income towards buying what I need for it, provisioning food and whatever else for the voyage. Then setting aside some money for when I get there. It's hard to say an exact budget overall for the entire trip but it will be well over $6k.

If that was all I had I would just seal up my Grampian, get a windvane and a few gadgets and say screw it and go. I wouldn't bother with the cost of a new boat.

Given a lot of luck, determination and a touch of crazy someone can cross an ocean in a raft with whatever they grabbed from their kitchen cupboard. Or they could sink after spending millions on a yacht. The goal isn't really how cheap can I cross the world for. The purpose in my posts are to get a realistic view on how to do it as safely as I can on my budget. Choosing the most important and necessary tools to get the job done with my restraints. I'm fully aware I won't be able to have the best of everything but it doesn't mean I can't succeed at it. People have done it with far less than I'm willing to put into it and people have failed after putting far more than I ever could into it. In the end all debate aside whatever happens will happen. I'd just like to try to minimize the risk a little.

Since you aren't on a $6,000 budget you may as well get a decent boat that will take care of you when the going gets tough.

I just noticed this Pearson 35 for sale. It's a recognized Bluewater Boat and can probably be had for $10,000 to $12,000 or so.

Forget about your equipment list and start with a decent boat.

https://smd.craigslist.org/boa/d/pea...412007901.html

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by contrail

It did not look like they hit with the keel, rather the stem, was what I was pointing out. Obviously, they did catch the keel on the line with the floats, but that would not have been a big deal.

It would be an awfully steep rock -- almost vertical -- to be able to hit the bow before hitting the keel. Anyway, the bow would pop up if the stem were hit, which it did not -- the stern popped up, which shows that the hit was on the keel.


Anyway, I think RBK nailed it -- even cheap production boats seem to have strong enough keels, by and large. If there were a problem with them, then they would be falling off. That is something which is exceptionally rare.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Since you aren't on a $6,000 budget you may as well get a decent boat that will take care of you when the going gets tough.

I just noticed this Pearson 35 for sale. It's a recognized Bluewater Boat and can probably be had for $10,000 to $12,000 or so.

Forget about your equipment list and start with a decent boat.

https://smd.craigslist.org/boa/d/pea...412007901.html

What qualifies this legendary "Bluewater" label the comics and advertisers so love..
Crossing Oceans or the amount of goodies like watermakers they can carry..
If its just crossing oceans then the OP has hundreds of makes of boats to choose from

[Tidjian]

Thank you for the Pearson listing. I'll check it out.

I'm a little less concerned about the keel type after the knowledge gained from this thread. I'll definitely go for the boat that hits my criteria list as well as is a sturdy build over what keel she has. In the end if I smash it on a rock I guess I'll pucker my arsehole and hope for the best. Ill likely be overly cautious when firat approaching coastlines and shallows. More than likely I'll try to stick with other boats until I get more familiar. I've never grounded my Grampian in the lakes but she has a shallow keel and there aren't reefs to worry about.

The more boats I look at the more it becomes apparent that unless I find a very affordable >30 boat. I'll likely be buying a boat 30~ as the prices just make more sense. If I have the choice of a Vega 27 for 10k vs an Islander 33. I'm going to go for the larger more comfortable boat pending it's in good condition and doesn't need work. Anything over 35' intimidates me a bit. Not to say for the right price and location I wouldn't still go for it. I know it has all the same lines and sails but I guess being so large concerns me a little. How difficult it will be to handle, how hard it will be to get into port or anchor, how deep the keel is, etc. I've also heard docking fees skyrocket after 30' which is another thing I need to consider unless I just stay at anchor 99% of the time. The one big plus to a bigger boat, but I think this can be said for anything over 30, is I don't have to worry as much about weight. When I did my math I figured anything under say 28 gives you about 1000~2500lbs maximum for gear. Considering just your ground tackle can weight upwards of 100lbs it wasn't giving me a lot of room.