Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Don’t forget to factor in going astern .. most full keelers will make you look like a drunken sailor in ports particularly if there is any wind blowing across/on the bow. One learns to deal with it but this can get really annoying..

Gentlemen do not go astern. Forwards I say, leave the past behind!

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Here's one I found

Thanks, it's a start for the centre ones.

Here's one includes bilge keels https://media1.britannica.com/eb-med...4-52F26B90.jpg

[Cheechako]

There's a good article in this month's Sail Mag by Tom Cunliffe about bluewater boat configurations/choices.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Is a twin keel a subset of bilge keel type?

Apparently synonymous, sorry for the OT hijack

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/saili...formance-54322

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Walk around any boat show today and you will be pushed to find anything other than bolt on fin keels, that is what the market wants. In decades to come that is what budget cruisers will be sailing around the world in, some manky old Bavaria with a 2m deep lead keel, lets see how that goes in the the Bahamas.

I don't foresee many recent production boats surviving their 30th birthday...
Btw is there any Bavaria with lead keel?

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by GTom

I don't foresee many recent production boats surviving their 30th birthday...
Btw is there any Bavaria with lead keel?

In our industry this is called survivorship bias. Old examples of well built ships and boats survive and give the illusion that things used to be better.

Chop strand fiberglass w/ poly resin will probably require more care as boats age - but the notion that modern boats built with vacuum infused vinylresin/epoxy with foam cores not lasting 30? I'd be more concerned re whether cruising destinations will be around in 30 years as we continue to struggle to deal with environmental change.

[Argyle38]

One the things that has been mentioned a couple of times is the potential cramped interior of a lot of older full keeled boats. Now the interior design has nothing to do with the keel design but it is a common characteristic of older boats, and full keeled boat are likely to be older, so that's the connection.

But a cramped interior has advantages. For a given size, a boat that has less open interior is going to have more storage and if you are living aboard that storage is like gold.

Example:
A couple of years ago I sailed to the Azores (from East coast US) on a Tartan 4100. It was a fine boat (and fast) with a reasonable amount of storage, but we quickly used up the boats storage capacity. Depending on the leg, we had 3, 4 or 5 guys on board, so it's quite a few people, but the crew were only packing for a few days (or a few weeks in my case) and there were still backpacks stuffed here and there in the cabin.

After that trip, my wife and I packed up our boat for a 3 month trip to Nova Scotia and Maine. Only two people but we were going to be living aboard for the whole three months. Going north and sailing in to late summer, we had to bring warm weather clothes, cold weather clothes, and extra blankets. We brought two bicycles (one folding), a good amount of food, drinks, beer, wine. I always have all my tools on board, as well as tons of spares, extra engine oil, coolant, etc. etc. If I had to guess, we maybe packed the boat 2/3 full.

[newhaul]

I have to say bs to full keelers being cramped below decks. My islanders bahama 24 is one of the few that small I know of that meet the tonnage measurements to be documented in the USA .
( its not but it has the volume to be ) gotta love flush deck boats.)

[hpeer]

Long fin keel, very wide side decks.

Ted Brewer Yacht Design


They come up for sale off and on. Fairly inexpensive. Most were made mid-80’s and were owner finished so there is a LOT of variation in the interior.

Here is a more recent one.
Boat for sale - Murray/Ted Brewer Cutter 33 - 33'

Here is a page from the PO on my boat
Chouette

There have been several other designs that are very similar by other architects if you care for the boat. Being Steel they MAY be inexpensive.

[fred4936]

Years ago I had a Pearson 26. I had that boat for about 12 years, and she sailed great, turned fast, especially using both the outboard and rudder to steer. Now I have a Tartan 27-2, which has a long keel and centerboard. I always go bow first into docks since reverse is always a question mark, at best. It sails very well, and balances much better than the Pearson did. I think the Pearson 26 was faster, having raced both. I have sailed both offshore (not far off shore), and the Tartan 27 was better behaved. Very similar room down below. I love both boats, but the Tartan 27-2 is the one I want to take further offshore.

[OceanSeaSpray]

The most important factor for ocean cruising is light weather ability: this is often most of what you get. This alone says fin keel. If you also want to be able to go where you like - rather than where the wind blows - then pointing ability is crucial as well.

A very good low-cost (now) small offshore cruiser is the old Dufour Arpege. Strong, good in all weather, pointing well, very fast in light winds, good volume: The 9-metre sloop Yarra around the world. | Nordkyn Design

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Argyle38

Gentlemen do not go astern. Forwards I say, leave the past behind!

+ 1

My full keel has a mind of its own in reverse.... but it was designed to go forward.

Full keel pros:

• Encapsulated, no issues with keel bolts
• When run aground scrapes the fiber instead of compromising keel-hull joint.
• Can be easily hove to - some fin keelers cannot.
• Excellent tracking - easy on autopilot, wind vane.
• Strong and protected rudder

Cons:

• Slower
• Less manuverability.
• That is it.

[OceanSeaSpray]

Originally Posted by Drew13440

It's been alluded to, but I will just point out that fin keel boats designed to cross oceans have rudders that are mounted on skegs to protect them from damage. It's an important distinction from an unprotected spade.

... in practice, ALL single rudders are protected by the keel and the main function of skegs is destroying the hydrodynamics of the rudder foil by causing the flow to separate at the knuckle on the low pressure side.

It is rather hard for something to hit the rudder at sea when there is the deeper fin keel clearing the way exactly in front of it.

[double u]

the argument is mainly academic, unless you want to go for a "project" boat (because of age) or you have unlimited funds for a one-off-build. if one limits the search to boats younger than 10 years there is very little choice.
(& tongue-in-cheek I'd like to add: 99% of all sailing vessels lost, either at sea or in strandings wer long-keeled & wooden...)

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by double u

...(& tongue-in-cheek I'd like to add: 99% of all sailing vessels lost, either at sea or in strandings wer long-keeled & wooden...)

I agree.
These boats have been plowing the seas for the last 4,000 years....