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Old 23-06-2015, 15:42   #16
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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In retrospect, I wish had went for a known quantity with a good reputation instead.
Do you mean that the custom build was an unknown factor in the end whether it was a sound design? What are the factors to consider when building your own boat? Obviously finances, material, time, ect., but what are the less obvious considerations? Choosing a design that previous builders have long term success with?
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Old 23-06-2015, 16:09   #17
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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Do you mean that the custom build was an unknown factor in the end whether it was a sound design? What are the factors to consider when building your own boat? Obviously finances, material, time, ect., but what are the less obvious considerations? Choosing a design that previous builders have long term success with?
Yes, a design that has a known reputation is good.
Of coarse, how well the yard will comply with what you THINK they will do in building it is another.
Even if you write a long specification, things may be grey at times.
My estimates in build time and cost were quite far off actually. That was over 30 years ago and just outfitting a 31 footer cost over $30,000. Amazing how things add up :>)
I could have been sailing a known boat for 2+ years if I hadn't built that one, and have got more outfitted in the cost.
Just saying it's a consideration. To top it all off that boat had extreme balance problems.
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Old 23-06-2015, 16:32   #18
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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Steady Hand.....How did you find this? I have checked that site and many others off and on for months lol. Thank you so much. I'm going to contact the guy and find out more about the condition. Thanks to you, I may be moving up my timetable
You are welcome. Glad to help anyone whenever I can.

If you get that boat, let me know. I had my eyes on it for about a year, but just as curiosity, as I like to look at metal boats and saw that one.

NOTE: I noticed that the damage has only been listed recently, and so was the mention of the need for a new engine. Perhaps the need was there all along, but I never noticed the mention of it over the last year that I have seen that ad. It went from $29K (Summer 2014) to $20K to $10K (January 2015) to $5K now. Assume the owner has been paying the $$ per month for storage for the last year, he is probably very ready to get rid of it.

As with any boat, "Caveat Emptor."
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You mentioned the "Full Keel" etc.

So, a few words on that issue...

Think of it this way: When you have a full keel boat, and the bottom of it grounds on something, the HULL/keel is hitting something. You are STUCK with a FIXED DRAFT boat. So, if you are lucky you wait for a higher tide to get off, if that is possible.

On the other hand, if you have a SWING keel boat, and the bottom of the keel hits something like a rock or bottom, you can LIFT the keel and make your boat that much less in DRAFT. Reducing your boat's draft by 3 or 4 feet (or more) may make a BIG difference in how far you can go and where you can go and how much damage you do when you do ground.

As the experienced cruisers will tell you, EVERYONE grounds their boat sometime.

This is the primary reason I find the SWING keel so appealing.
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Old 24-06-2015, 08:38   #19
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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Thanks Pauls. I have been seriously looking and researching for two months now and I have noticed that a lot of steel boats have the full keel. I was considering steel but ruled them out due to the rust factor. I will keep looking and do more research on the upkeep for steel. Appreciate it
I would have to agree - steel does rust but if properly prepared and maintained it should not be an issue. Also, just about anyone can weld steel, or learn very quickly to do so. My preference used to be alimimium but the ease of repairing steel is attractive - and if you happen to drop a steel washer etc into the bilge you dont have to worry about it fizzing away. The simple fact of having so many steel boats to choose from would likely sway my decision as well.
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Old 24-06-2015, 08:40   #20
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

a fin or swing keel comes about much quicker to come about, ( especially in light air ) and is easier to ungound? than a full keel,
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Old 24-06-2015, 08:47   #21
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

Have Ted Brewer Kingsland 42 ' with Brewer Bit. VERY comfy in a seaway. I agree with everything you said except I would prefer a Steel Hull and Aluminum Topsides as I am deathly afraid of the hull and electrolysis despite isolation transformer etc etc. Search Yacthworld for AL and Steel you might get lucky but choices are limited. Russ
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Old 24-06-2015, 09:00   #22
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

Three aluminum projects from Robert Barros, a Brazilian designer:

BG Yacht Design - Pop Alu 32

B & G Yacht Design - Kiribati 36

BG Yacht Design - Multichine 41SK
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Old 24-06-2015, 09:37   #23
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

Can't say if he's done something you would be interested in, and haven't read all the posts so don't know if Dick Zaal has been mentioned. He has done many aluminum designs, one-offs and for builders like Atlantic Yachts.

Agree that Ted Brewer has done some nice work and he can (or once did) recommend builders.

Van de Stadt's website is also fun.
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Old 24-06-2015, 09:56   #24
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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Can't say if he's done something you would be interested in, and haven't read all the posts so don't know if Dick Zaal has been mentioned. He has done many aluminum designs, one-offs and for builders like Atlantic Yachts.

Agree that Ted Brewer has done some nice work and he can (or once did) recommend builders.

Van de Stadt's website is also fun.


Good suggestions!

I like the Dick Zaal designs and the Van DeStadt has a lot of interesting ones too.

To the OP:
If you visit the Dick Zaal site, look for the "Zeevink" as I think it might be a good size for the OP's interest.
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Old 24-06-2015, 10:54   #25
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

Great design from first glance. That Zeevink does look like a solid cruiser along with the B&G Kiribati 36.

Quote:
I agree with everything you said except I would prefer a Steel Hull and Aluminum Topsides as I am deathly afraid of the hull and electrolysis despite isolation transformer etc etc.
Yeah that is a major factor. From what i've heard you also must be wary about seperation between lead ballast and the aluminum, or else your boat will be a falling apart battery.

Quote:
As with any boat, "Caveat Emptor."
Most definitely. As for the swing keel, I think you have a point. As per the lack of full keel designs I was also considering twin keel for aluminum. Shallow coastal draft, able to take groundings and dry out, but you would have the same advantages with the swing keel. With the swing you will be able to have the benefit of a deep keep while ocean cruising with that safety of kicking up. I'm going to look into other cruisers experiences with them along with any potential problems that that keel will present (damage, breaking, falling off) and how other cruisers handled them in sub-optimal conditions. However, Garcia, Boreal, and many other aluminum ocean exploration crusiers employ that keel as you said so it appears that there is a good reason why.
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Old 24-06-2015, 15:23   #26
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

Take a quick look at this boat. She's also been reduced in price recently to (from memory) 69K USD.

Boats for sale Fiji, boats for sale, used boat sales, Sailing Yachts For Sale 14m Ocean Going Aluminium Schooner - Apollo Duck

Yes, she's a fin keel and a little larger than you had specified but she's got everything other than AIS (which I'd add in a flash). According to the owner, she's sea-kindly and predictable.

Hope this helps,
David
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Old 24-06-2015, 18:37   #27
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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Northbound,

I see this is your first post on the forum. Welcome to posting in the forum.

There have been multiple threads discussing aluminum boats.

Here is one:
Owners opinions on aluminium boats?

To find others here on this forum, here is my tip for you:

My Favorite Tip to Any New Members of this Forum Looking for Fast Answers:

There have been threads posted on the forum discussing many topics at length, with differing opinions. But quickly finding the right thread and the right answer could take a while, if one just browses the forum.

Since you are relatively new to the forum, here is a friendly tip: Look at the green menu bar on the forum pages for the drop down "Search" menu. Click on that to drop down a list of search functions. From that drop down menu select the GOOGLE CUSTOM search feature and then enter several different descriptive terms for your topic of interest. That will do a Custom google search of this site and it is likely to find answers to your questions or results for you.

This is the best and fastest method I have found to find answers or opinions already in the forum archives.
Many thanks for not only posting this information but for also placing the headline in bold type to draw it to new member's attention. My partner & I are new but avid readers of the daily emails as we're considering buying a boat and heading off cruising and this info helps.
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Old 24-06-2015, 21:49   #28
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

You mention the Ted Brewer designed "Bulldog."
If you want to see a good example, check out my album: Tin Star.
I've had a good welder add a structural swimstep on the transom.
This is not only handy, but protects the transom hung rudder.

I haven't suffered a bit of electrolysis, having properly assessed zincs.
My slip mate is a steel boat owner and surveyor, did the proper tests.

My I suggest you look at the website: Attainable Adventure Cruising.
Both of the principles are cruising on aluminum, often in high latitudes.
They offer a fascinating array of topics, and the opinions and replies too.
https://www.morganscloud.com/categor...ign-selection/

Contact me if you have specific questions, but your search seems spot on.
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Old 24-06-2015, 21:56   #29
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

My hull is a Joubert design in thick 1/2" aluminum (with the patented Strongal method). It has a swinging keel, a transom hung rudder in a cassette if you will that allows one to have more rudder for sailing vs motoring. With the keel down the draft is about 9 ft. With it up is is about 40 inches.

When running in large seas we raise the keel to prevent the possibility of a broach or round up into the wind.The keel is raised and lowered with a truck winch built into the design of the boat. I used a synthetic line on the winch so I have rust issues.

The Meta Dalu was available in several sizes and similar to the earlier Damien design.
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Old 24-06-2015, 22:49   #30
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Re: Full Keel Aluminum Cruiser

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..........Twin Keel - Little experience with this design, but open since finding a sailboat is about design compromise. People defend it with Westerly, Reinke, and Puffin and it appears solid, but i'm curious about their integrity and self righting during heavy weather. Shallow draft and drying out is good but if I get caught in heavy weather (and no-one ever plans for it) I'd rather have the security that she could handle the storms.
Northbound, For a situation where ones primary harbor dries out twice a day (like some places in England), twin keels would be great.

If only an occasional maintenance dry out is intended, consider a conventional keel and set of beaching legs. There are some fancy legs available that telescope via a jack-screw. This system will accommodate an uneven sub-strait with little hassle.

Personally, I scout potential beaches on foot beforehand. I use a single, non-adjustable leg set up for about a 10 degree list.

Steve

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