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Old 26-09-2015, 20:06   #46
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

Crisco 41,

"Think 3 teenage girls pms ing..."

Maybe a 60 ft. catamaran? (just joking)

The point is, pms or not, y'all 're going to have to live together on a boat, and for your purposes, based on my experiences (30 ft mono, 36 ft. mono, and 46' mono, between 1978 and now), privacy is an illlusion, even at 46 ft. There is little to choose between a 27 and 36 that will give you enough private berths for a private berth for each child. With the larger boat, you'll hopefully gain storage space. Given that, I would start thinking about installing curtains to aid the illusion of privacy. Possibly make that quarterberth something either earned as a reward for exceptionally good behavior, or available by pulling straws for each weekend. It will be the most private.

On a boat the size you're talking about, if you try to find one with 2 heads, seems to me I remember an Erickson 27 that had 2 two heads, and two staterooms.

With five people living aboard, your boat will require a spacious sanitation system, especially if you plan to anchor out. Since you're planning fresh water lake sailing, you will be required to have such a system. They're great while they're working... You might be interested to read the Composting Head for Long Term Cruising thread; also, you might be interested in Peg Hall's book, "Boat Odors and How to Avoid them", about maintaining holding tank systems. [I probably didn't get the title word perfect, but Googling on her name and that idea will probably get you there. There are also CF threads on those subjects, under the "Forums" button].

Ann
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Old 27-09-2015, 05:27   #47
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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A Lil sarcastic today?
That was only for one day. It's over now.

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Originally Posted by Crisco41 View Post
Like your thinking ; )
Sounds like maybe the admiral want's a 38ft boat with 2 heads and the captain wants a 25K boat
Perhaps a comprimise is in order(probably not lol)

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but Think 3 teenage girls pms ing.
I found the perfect boat for that and it's well within your budget! Check it out:






Honestly I think what everyone here is trying to do is prevent you front getting in over your heads.something that will essentially be a huge money pit that you either won't be able to afford to maintain, or will have to make such sacrifice to afford it, that it won't be worth it.
I would love to have a 38ft boat myself and I was actually starting to save for one. Once reality hit me as far as what it costs to repair and maintain my 28ft boat, I have decided to go with something more like a newer 30ft boat for my next one.

Is your budget REALLY 25k, or is that just an ideal figure? I'd be willing to wager that you could spend at least 60k total getting those boats you linked ready and then there will be ongoing expenses after that. EVERYTHING for a 38ft boat is going to be about three times as expensive, if not more than a 27-30ft boat.
If you really must get a 35+ foot boat, I'd take a hard look at finding a way to increase your budget to at least 50k to start out, then calculate what it will cost to maintain the boat after that and budget for that.
look at/compare haul out fees, bottom cleaning, bottom jobs, sail repair, repainting, repairing/replacing a larger engine(keep in mind a small outboard can easily push a 27ft boat), re-bedding stanchion posts/deck fittings, replacing running rigging, standing rigging, hardware, maintenance for an additional head, repair for a larger A/C system, ect...this is just a small list and illustrates how you won't really know what is involved until you own a boat. These are not one time jobs either. They are ongoing and a lot of it needs to be done every 1-2 years, if not more often. The expense keeps coming, it's like the mail. Being "handy" doesn't mean it's not still going to cost a lot. Marine grade materials are expensive.
Take a look at all that and decide if a little more space to help out with PMS is really worth it. I've seen a lot of cruising videos where 2-3 young females were cruising on 30ish foot boats and did just fine.
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Old 27-09-2015, 07:44   #48
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

You're not listening. So go ahead and pull the switch. Then you'll remember what we all said. Expect to spend at least a 1/3 more than what you paid for the boat.
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Old 27-09-2015, 08:29   #49
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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You're not listening. So go ahead and pull the switch. Then you'll remember what we all said. Expect to spend at least a 1/3 more than what you paid for the boat.
This whole thing went sideways anyhow. I guess I gave too much info.
I just wanted to find out how much difference in light wind performance do the SA/D and D/L ratios indicate. I want to fully understand the boats I am browsing thru online.

Everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about boat length. I probably did myself in this conversation. We may very well decide we don't need more than a 30' when we get to the point in our research when we go look at them. The nearest sailboat marina is 75 miles away. We can't just pop over and look at different boats. The 35 + ft. came up because they have better features for long term cruising. That is the end goal, but we are no where near buying RIGHT NOW, and our budget could be adjusted if need be.

I / we appreciate very much most of the input (sarcasm not so much) but I don't quite understand why some are getting so irritated.
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Old 27-09-2015, 08:39   #50
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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I / we appreciate very much most of the input (sarcasm not so much) but I don't quite understand why some are getting so irritated.
I was just having some fun. I didn't intend to insult and apologize if you guys were insulted.

Here is a cool site I found that I found to compare various boats:
Sailplan Yacht Design and Naval Architecture. Yacht Design Studio

Keep in mind that a lot of these raw numbers don't factor in a lot of other things, so take these mathematical figures with a grain of salt. They just give a very general idea of the type of boat you are looking at.
Also their meters are very relative.
For example, my boat is a racer cruiser...but when you compare it on their meter to other boats that rank on the meter(some of them are racing dinghies) my boat shows on the meter as being closer to a motor sailor...however, compared to an actual motor sailor in the 30ft range, my boat is far from it.
Again, it's all relative.
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Old 27-09-2015, 10:05   #51
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

Hey. Vinnie. No offense taken. All in fun. And yes...the admiral might be happy with that BIG boat. Til we could upsize. Lol.
Truthfully we are very simple no frill people. It doesn't take much to get us excited and also very thankful for the little things in life.
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Old 27-09-2015, 10:09   #52
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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You're not listening. So go ahead and pull the switch. Then you'll remember what we all said. Expect to spend at least a 1/3 more than what you paid for the boat.
We got it we.do.....so won't be pulling any switch soon. Wanna pull my finger?
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Old 27-09-2015, 10:42   #53
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

I own a 1990 Hunter legend 37.5. I bought her 3 seasons ago for all the reasons you listed. In fact, I liked her better than the 40 or 45 foot version. I have seen them advertised in the 30k range. She sails great on light wind, and sails great in heavy wind although I reef at 15 or so knots because she is a little tender. Sleeps 7 easily with two dogs. Great galley, and head with a shower. Like any Sailor would say, I love my boat. Just yachtworld search and you will see many of them. I think this boat would fit your list of wants. The legend series has one smaller, too. Good luck!

Ben

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Old 27-09-2015, 15:31   #54
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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I just wanted to find out how much difference in light wind performance do the SA/D and D/L ratios indicate.
Remember, there is somewhat of a paradox here. In light air, heavy displacement boats have an advantage because they have big rigs. In light air only two things count (beside the skipper's wind hunting ability): sail area and a smooth bottom. Some would add wetted surface to that short list, but I think if you are long sail area and smooth bottom, well, I'll accept some wetted area. You'll need lateral plane in other conditions.

In my opinion, don't become overly obsessed with one characteristic of a boat. What you want is a good, well-built boat in good condition that meets your needs. In four decades of intensive involvement in the sport, almost all of it in boats without engines, I have been truly becalmed perhaps half a dozen times. Excellent sails, a perfect bottom, and, most important, your skill in sailing in light air are the most important factors in success.

One more thing. It seems to me that about once every six to nine months a really attractive bargain comes along on the used boat market. I mean a boat whose design, build, condition, equipment and price make you sit up, slap the desk and say, "Holy smoke!". It is better to be patient and wait for that boat to appear than take a lesser opportunity and try to bring it up to the same standard.

Paul
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Old 27-09-2015, 15:40   #55
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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I just wanted to find out how much difference in light wind performance do the SA/D and D/L ratios indicate.
Remember, there is somewhat of a paradox here. In light air, heavy displacement boats have an advantage because they have big rigs. In light air only two things count (beside the skipper's wind hunting ability): sail area and a smooth bottom. Some would add wetted surface to that short list, but I think if you are long sail area and smooth bottom, well, I'll accept some wetted area. You'll need lateral plane in other conditions.

In my opinion, don't become overly obsessed with one characteristic of a boat. What you want is a good, well-built boat in good condition that meets your needs. In four decades of intensive involvement in the sport, almost all of it in boats without engines, I have been truly becalmed perhaps half a dozen times. Excellent sails, a perfect bottom, and, most important, your skill in sailing in light air are the most important factors in success.

One more thing. It seems to me that about once every six to nine months a really attractive bargain comes along on the used boat market. I mean a boat whose design, build, condition, equipment and price make you sit up, slap the desk and say, "Holy smoke!" It is better to be patient and wait for that boat to appear than take a lesser opportunity and try to bring it up to the same standard.

While you are waiting for that gem to appear, learn to sail.

Paul
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Old 27-09-2015, 15:54   #56
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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Everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about boat length. I probably did myself in this conversation. We may very well decide we don't need more than a 30' when we get to the point in our research when we go look at them. The nearest sailboat marina is 75 miles away. We can't just pop over and look at different boats. The 35 + ft. came up because they have better features for long term cruising. That is the end goal, but we are no where near buying RIGHT NOW, and our budget could be adjusted if need be.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to get on a few sailboats and kinda try them on for size. All this theorizing may be fun and an intellectual exercise, but until you have a personal feeling for size and accommodation, you are really wasting time. If you feel that a 75 mile drive to equip yourself with a basic knowledge that you NEED if you are to make sense of all the advice offered here is too much, well, how are you planning to do the actual boat searching when the time comes to buy? Many of us have traveled hundreds or even thousands of miles to look at one specific boat... A couple of days spent hanging around a marina and talking to boat owners, most of whom will happily show off their boats, will repay you well.

Jim
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Old 27-09-2015, 17:32   #57
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
Remember, there is somewhat of a paradox here. In light air, heavy displacement boats have an advantage because they have big rigs. In light air only two things count (beside the skipper's wind hunting ability): sail area and a smooth bottom. Some would add wetted surface to that short list, but I think if you are long sail area and smooth bottom, well, I'll accept some wetted area. You'll need lateral plane in other conditions.

SNIPPED
Paul
That is what I was trying to find out. I did not know that.
Thank you
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Old 27-09-2015, 18:38   #58
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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We've been looking at ads for a 35'-38' sailboat. We want to eventually cruise from the Cumberland river in middle TN to the west coast of Fla. and maybe the Bahamas someday. We have to wait for our youngest Granddaughter to graduate in 6 years. (we have adopted them because my stepdaughter is a mess)
So , I've been trying to find a boat that is good in light wind, yet seaworthy, and with a wider beam (10.5'). The wife wants comfort, I want fun and speed.
We both want hot pressure water, a shower, stove and oven (propane), non cored hull, sloop, dodger, bimini, draft less than 6', diesel engine, setup for single handling in a rear cockpit. All for 25K or less.
I'm getting wrapped around the axle with the D/l and SA/D ratios because I want to be able to sale her on lakes in middle TN. on the weekends. I am thinking the wind is not strong enough here to sail a boat that size unless the ratios are right.
Am I asking too much? Am I misguided in any of my thinking or criteria?
I've been doing so much reading online that I think I'm losing my sight.
Please give your opinions. Oh yea, we have never sailed before.
Wow, this may be one of the more challenging posts of them all! SteadyHand always has good tips and Greenhand is right too; everyone has good tips. Yes, I think you are asking for a bit much, realistically. But wait are you saying you are looking for a boat now but won't be really using it for cruising for 6 years? I too would echo that it is best to find a local boat to learn and practice on, not too big, trailerable (will save you money.) The more you sail and learn, the more your preferences in boats will change. As the time gets closer to your granddaughter's graduation, prepare your boat to sell and start shopping for a bigger boat. And by that time you probably will already have your eye on a particular design you like (based on your research in naval architecture.) You may decide a trimaran or catamaran are more interesting to you. Anything you buy now will likely not be your first choice in six years. I would also question how you came to your measurement preferences now. I'd say hold off on settling on specific feet or pounds; you may find a great boat with a 9 and half foot beam or 33 feet (Pearson Vanguard) or a classic Tartan 34c (solid build, great S&S design, shoal draft) for $6000 that needs an engine (there is a thread here on that one.) You never know the guise your perfect boat may take. In the mean time check out atomvoyages.com and bluewaterboats.org.
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Old 27-09-2015, 18:47   #59
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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Remember, there is somewhat of a paradox here. In light air, heavy displacement boats have an advantage because they have big rigs. In light air only two things count (beside the skipper's wind hunting ability): sail area and a smooth bottom. Some would add wetted surface to that short list, but I think if you are long sail area and smooth bottom, well, I'll accept some wetted area. You'll need lateral plane in other conditions.
Heavy displacement boats have an advantage in light air? That is going to come as a surprise to few folks I imagine.
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Old 27-09-2015, 19:46   #60
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Re: Frustrated finding a boat. help please

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In four decades of intensive involvement in the sport, almost all of it in boats without engines, I have been truly becalmed perhaps half a dozen times.
Wow! Where do you sail? (Alternatively, what do you consider truly becalmed?) I know at least half a dozen times a year I go out and Lake P. is like glass. As in, sails hang totally limp and if you persevere, you might move 1/4 mile in an hour or so unless the tide is pushing you the other way.
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