Four Boats

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I'm going to price the boat based on what my surveyor tells me. Isn't that better than guessing, and then adjusting the price downwards based on what the surveyor tells me?

Two ways to skin the same cat. Basically you have said, "The asking price of the boat is what I am willing to pay if the survey turns up nothing."

[Curmudgeon]

I am sweating the details, but the ones that concern me aren't the bells and whistles. My concern is the latent defects (if any) that will crop up 5 years down the road and make the boat unsafe and/or unmarketable.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Two ways to skin the same cat. Basically you have said, "The asking price of the boat is what I am willing to pay if the survey turns up nothing."

I haven't said that at all. Even absent the surveyor's report, I will offer less than asking because of the boat's known issues, e.g no radar. How much less is something I will discuss with the surveyor.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I haven't said that at all. Even absent the surveyor's report, I will offer less than asking because of the boat's known issues, e.g no radar. How much less is something I will discuss with the surveyor.

IMHO you have basically given advantage to the owner who knows you have dollars invested before the negotiations begin.

Trying to discount anything that is obvious by observation - i.e. no radar - won't hold water because the owner will simply say, "I didn't advertise it with a radar. Why are you asking a discount for that?"

Sorry for being pedantic about this and good luck with your search.

[Curmudgeon]

Sellers have zero advantage in the present U.S. economy. People can't find buyers for their houses, let alone their boats. So you think I'm at a disadvantage because I won't walk away from a $500 surveyor's fee?

I'm not going to ask for a "discount." If I offer at all, it will be what I'm willing to pay for the boat, all things considered.

[Curmudgeon]

So I received a so-so report from the surveyor on the Aloha 32 and will probably not make an offer. For starters, the boat was full of water at some point and, although there was a nice cosmetic coverup job, it's difficult to ascertain the condition of the cabin plywood. The roller furler on the forestay was frozen and the sail (which wasn't even a genoa) looked to be in poor condition (although it was hard to tell for sure because it couldn't be unfurled). There were other issues as well.

Today I looked at 3 boats: a Cape Dory 30B (way too small and egregiously overpriced-- the teak was in horrible shape), a Baba 30 (excellent boat, very well maintained, but with spruce masts and alot of brightwork-- fine cabinetry under sail), and yes, a Bristol Channel Cutter 28. This was not a Sam L. Morse boat: it is one of the hulls built in Vancouver, BC under license from Morse (a license which the Canadian licensee allegedly breached by paying royalties on only half the hulls it built) and then finished as a kit. The hull, mast, sails, rigging and electronics (late model radar, GPS, etc.) seemed quite good. It has a manual windlass and a windvane. The cabin, on the other hand, was a disaster area, and the boat needs a new engine. Needless to say it was the most expensive of the three. But it also had the most interior space.

Tomorrow I go look at another Aloha 32, and something called an Alajuela 33. It's a double ender and looks to be in lousy condition. Has anyone heard of this boat?

One broker is also trying to sell me a C&C 36. Any thoughts on that boat? Looks like a production "racer/cruiser" with lots of interior space but not very seaworthy.

The broker who has the Aloha also wants me to look at a Pearson 365 Ketch. I understand that they are slow, but would welcome opinions on this boat as well.

The Allied Seawind II Ketch is under agreement. Cross that off the list. The Amel 36 and Freedom are still available.

[SkiprJohn]

Alajuela 33 is the little sister of the ingrid 38 and if finished by factory is a great sea boat. This is one of Ferenc Mate's favorites and deserves a look. Well made but you need to balance that with bad maintenance. I like the BCC too and my friends who finished one and sailed it to Hawaii did it engineless. Lots of sail area for the length.
Regards,
JohnL

[Curmudgeon]

Well I went to look at another Aloha 32 today and loved the boat. You could sail it away as is.

I also loved the BCC, although I'm terrified of the costs of fixing it up. Plus it's 10 grand more than the Aloha.

I've narrowed the choice to those two. The broker with the Alajuela 33 never called me back, even though I tried 3 times to make an appointment. Maybe it has been sold.

I will make an offer on either the Aloha or the BCC next week. My head says the Aloha, my heart says the BCC.

[gdecon]

[quote=Curmudgeon;190162]Well, I'm a long way from buying it. Even if the survey is good, there will be a price negotiation.


I really don't see the advantages of a longer boat. In fact, if I had unlimited funds I would buy a 28 ft Bristol Channel Cutter and have it gaff rigged. Gaff rigs are cool and they sail pretty well, too.

Note : The BCC is a 36 or 37 foot boat. Unfortunately this is verified by dockage fees. Fortunately, that is the base of the sail plan and it sails like it.

[Curmudgeon]

Is that true of every boat with a bowsprit? I can understand why you should pay extra for a slip, because the bowsprit effectively requires a longer slip. But what about fees for hauling, winter storage etc? What about boats with folding bowsprits (I've seen a few)?

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Is that true of every boat with a bowsprit...

Where an unshippable sprit is concerned; in my experience when living aboard, major marinas usually include it in the dockage calculation (at least the monthly/annual ones, sometimes able to skate on the night-to-night ones just by listing the LOD). Where non-permanent appendages are concerned, however, I’d argue the point – strongly… I used to ship the dinghy-davits (Irwin 42, 45+ with sprit, 48’ or so with davits and sprit) when annual measurement time came around, and no-one blinked… DC and Baltimore… In the more rural marinas, I eventually gravitated to escape the weekenders, I’d just list it by its model as an Irwin 42, and they’d use 42-feet if they calculated length, which most did not…

Last live-aboard marina with the Irwin (1995) was $660 a year (yep), water and electric included -- guess we won't see those prices for awhile, eh...

But different localities vary greatly…

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks, Larry, for the information. I have a deeded mooring for the boat (assuming I can get the harbormaster to let me move it to deeper water), so marina space will hopefully not be an issue. I'm more concerned about the costs of hauling and Winter storage. The local boatyards seem to base those charges on the length of the boat as well.

[Pblais]

Is that true of every boat with a bowsprit? I can understand why you should pay extra for a slip, because the bowsprit effectively requires a longer slip. But what about fees for hauling, winter storage etc?

We have an extra 10 feet if you add the bowsprit at 6 ft and davits at 4 ft. On a bulkhead they really have you since a foot is a foot. In a slip it can be some or not all. Slips big enough for a 36 ft boat hold us almost all the time. Sometimes the ailes are a bit tight to make the turn, but you get good or you start hitting things. Sometimes in dense areas the slips are sized different so they can maximize boats. These seem to be the places where telling the truth matters more.

So like Larry I just say Gozzard 36 even if the whole boat is more like 46. It works a whole lot more than it does not. For hauling and bottom work it's fine to go with LOD. For an annual slip it can be a little bit more complicated. At a marina in the northern Chesapeake in the summer they count evrything in the popular places. Places in Europe count everything too. If you get caught between sizes it can make a bigger difference.

I would prefer to keep the bowsprit and davits but it's nice if you don't get burned too bad because of them.

[anotherT34C]

Do they go out there with a tape measure? I'd like to add a smallish (1-2 foot) wooden sprit to hold a pair of anchor rollers. I don't expect to change the LOA in the USCG doc.

[Curmudgeon]

Say, is the Gozzard 36 the same as the Bayfield 36, the one with the bathtub?