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Old 30-12-2013, 06:22   #16
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Re: foresail management on cutter

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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post
So you furl the yankee completely before any reefing of the main?

Agreed about hoping to never have to use the storm jib, but it's better to have it than not!

Boat is a traditional cutter with a 9' bowsprit, headsails are all hanks no furlers here, so yes the Yankee is doused first.
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Old 30-12-2013, 09:36   #17
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

9.3 ounce in modern material is pretty tough. If you go much heavier than that, you will feel like you are handling a piece of plywood. I think the sailmaker did OK by you. ______Grant.
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Old 30-12-2013, 09:54   #18
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

At 8.3 oz., your yankee is made of heavier dacron than most genoas that would be fitted on a boat the size of yours with a sloop rig. The difference in construction of a staysail/storm jib versus the typical genoa on a sloop, of course, involves more than just the weight of the dacron - one must also consider the stitching, the number of layers of cloth at various points including the head, tack and clew as well as any webbing used for re-inforcement.

Brad
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Old 30-12-2013, 10:02   #19
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

The main is a 10oz warp drive but is a 52 foot boat with a large stick
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Old 30-12-2013, 10:31   #20
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/caborico Here is a link to Cabo Rico Owners group .Active Group. Plus 15 knts 1 reef in main reduce Yankee some you will get the feel for it 20 plus knts 2nd reef in main reduce Yankee again past 25 furl Yankee some more really not much left at this point but staysail still give you drive.Never experienced weather helm that was bad doing it this way. I am conservative.
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Old 30-12-2013, 10:43   #21
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Re: foresail management on cutter

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Boat is a traditional cutter with a 9' bowsprit, headsails are all hanks no furlers here, so yes the Yankee is doused first.
Love that picture!
OP,
My first and last boat is a cutter, very much like a W32 but without the high price as its ferro. I had sailed many smaller borrowed boats up till the purchase of this one and knowing nothing about cutters, I simply took it out daily in the Bay to practice sail set ups.
I am lucky that it blows here 20-30 knots nearly every day. I have sailed her with every bit of cloth up, main only, staysail on tacking boom, staysail on no boom, staysail only, 120 Yankee only, 140 Yankee (could be a Genny?). I have reefed her to the three's and of course bare poled.
Nothing felt as good as triple reefed main with staysail in 35 knots plus. 6.2 knots and as easy to helm as they come. The boat felt so right...

When I finally went across the bar and out to sea for a shakedown in heavy swell, the same sail plan worked extremely well in 25 knots plus with 15' seas following. However...when the wind started touching 45 knots, I handed the main and left only the staysail up. The self tacking boom is on a funky pad eye/block set up but not having to go forward for any reason while tacking back to the bar was very nice. I had good steerage and though heeled hard and humming, the boat was stable and easy to handle and point. I looked into getting storm sails but I know I wouldn't find myself out in anything blowing harder than that two days at sea and what I have held up just fine.
More money left over for cruising.
When I finally read up on cutters and sail balance, it reinforced what I had learned from the trials with small variations.
No doubt that all cutters respond differently but its only through trial and error that you can learn what is right for your boat.

All forward sails are hanks and I built up a simple but very effective safety harness when I have to go forward to douse as I always sail single handed. I don't think what applies to one cutter applies to them all, trial and error will sort it out for you.
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Old 30-12-2013, 10:49   #22
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

We have a cutter and I've found:

- In light broad winds we can use a hanked on drifter to the outer stay.
- In moderate winds I'm too much of a wimp and I just downhaul the drifter and work with a partially reefed main and staysail.

For the trade winds I might put the hanked yankee back on by default, but maybe not. We'll see.

I'm chronically under-canvased on an already conservative sail plan, but I've never felt the boat get out of control from me and and it's easy to singlehand.
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Old 30-12-2013, 11:14   #23
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

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We have a cutter and I've found:

- In light broad winds we can use a hanked on drifter to the outer stay.
- In moderate winds I'm too much of a wimp and I just downhaul the drifter and work with a partially reefed main and staysail.

For the trade winds I might put the hanked yankee back on by default, but maybe not. We'll see.

I'm chronically under-canvased on an already conservative sail plan, but I've never felt the boat get out of control from me and and it's easy to singlehand.
Rebel, a very sound policy for boat handling is to never be out of control, one of the things with hanked sails is it encourages me to douse and reef sails early.
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Old 30-12-2013, 12:52   #24
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

All boats are different, the advice to go to the CB support group is probably best.
The main idea is to lower and centralize the Ce as wind pressure increases, this is just as true on a performance boat as it is on a heavyweight cruiser, you just want to make the boat as balanced and easy to sail as possible.
My last boat was a racer cruiser which had good offshore manners, it had a removable inner forestay for the storm sail, it worked well in heavy weather by first reefing the headsail and main (the cruising main had 3 reef points) as wind picked up the main and headsail were stowed and that boat could sail nicely on just the storm jib, with no ill effects and good tracking. The mast placement on that boat favored that set up, dousing the storm jib first with the 3rd reef in the mainsail tended to give it weather helm it was an IOR era boat.
The new one is a cutter rig with removable inner forestay with running backstays, I like the flexibility of this rig but haven't had the opportunity to sail it in really heavy wind/seas yet, however I get the feeling it will require a slightly different reefing order from my experience with it so far.
Common sense and a basic understanding of the principle involved will go a long way toward trimming the boat out.
Good luck. Talk to other owners of that particular model if you can, they all have their personality quirks.
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Old 30-12-2013, 16:17   #25
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

On my old cutter I would roll up the foresail as my first reduction. The boat sailed nice under full main and staysail. But each boat and each setup (rigging, sails) will be different. I had different sails then the stock setup a large roach main and a roached battened staysail on a clubfoot boom.
Try all options in different wind speeds and directions see what is best for your boat.
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Old 30-12-2013, 16:52   #26
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Re: Foresail Management on Cutter

Rebel Heart, I suspect you will love trade wind sailing, but you will have to get used to poling out whatever headsail is needed for the wind strength. You staysail is much too small to balance the main when wing and wing. You need more area in your foresails to balance the main or you will work your windvane to death. Work out a system of hand signals with Red, so that everything goes smoothly. Reef the main, maybe even double reef before you will need to hand the yankee. Vangs and preventers are the norm for the main. I prefer DDW sailing but many sailors like to broad reach back and forth. It is probably worth trying both to determine how your particular boat handles. When the trades get light, you will be glad you have a nice big drifter. It beats the hell out of listening to a diesel. Best of luck to you. _____Grant.
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