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Old 05-05-2009, 10:05   #1
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Force 9 in a 26' Boat ?

Hi I am researching my first 'big' boat. I am planning on getting something that I can trailer. In the UK that means approx 25ft x 9ft.

I am hoping to use the boat for some longer journeys. Particularly around the Mediterranean. This means that at some stage I am likely to see some heavy seas.

The boat I am considering is a Etap 26
ETAP Yachting

It has positive buoyancy and will sail even when full of water.
ETAP Yachting

It is however a fairly light displacement boat. I think at this stage it is the best boat that I can afford, but would welcome your views on how seaworthy a 26ft boat can be?

Would anyone here attempt a transatlantic crossing in one? (I wouldn't because I lack the skills and experience, but would be interested in the capabilities of the boat)

PS. I realise that there are people who do crazy things in tiny boats Famous Small Boats
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:18   #2
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It seems a bit on the light side. Have you looked at a Contessa 26?
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:23   #3
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ETAPs are certified as unsinkable by France's Marine Marchande. To meet its standards, a yacht has to reach stability & floating requirements.
  • When flooded, the boat's freeboard must not be less than 3% of its overall length
  • A flooded boat must float in a 'practically horizontal' position
  • A flooded boat with maximum crew must right itself from a 90 degrees heel
  • A flooded yacht must be capable of being sailed
  • The trickiest component of these requirements is the self-righting aspect; if the buoyancy was concentrated in the lower parts of the hull, then the yacht would tend to stay inverted. Therefore, plenty of foam is required in the topsides & deck, as well as in the bottom & ends, volume which could otherwise be used for stowage.
Ausail Pathfinder Marine Group - ETAP Yachts



The boats seem to have a stability number of 2.17 Capsize screening formula Is that good?
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:29   #4
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I owned a Westerly Centaur (which are readily available in your part of the world) that I kept on a trailer. I did several sails of the Great Lakes and several cruises to 3 months in the Bahamas and found it a quite capable boat. Several have crossed the Atlantic and a few have circumnavigated.

The Contessa, Flicka and Dana are examples of other small boats that have proven to be quite capable.

Personally, for long term cruising, I'd prefer something a bit bigger, but there is no doubt smaller boats can be capable.

I think most people looking for small capable boats, rely more on boats that are well built, well balasted and sea kindly to ones that are light or have positive buoyancy when swamped.
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Old 05-05-2009, 13:59   #5
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26 ft boat and storms

Hi Sam My wife and I have sailed a Sadler 26 also unsinkable and have sailed across the atlantic and the pacific. We have encountered a force 11 once and at first we were frightened but after we had realised that the Cape Horn wind pilot would handle the boat we realised that the boat was realy a real sailing yacht and safe. I also did a circum nav in a westerley Sirrus 23ft 32 years ago after I left the Marines and had no problems. after 35000 miles in 43 months I only encountered 2 storms one a force 9 the other a force 8. I find people centre on the possibilities of storms without thinking too much about the times of year that you travel and in what areas. If your budget will go to about 20000 pounds you could get a very nice Sadler 29 unsinkable which an take yoou anywhere you want to go.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_uk View Post
my first 'big' boat... In the UK that means approx 25ft x 9ft....


I think Donald Street once recommended that for each crew member, the boat should displace 5000 pounds – I’ve grown to think that overly generous, but I do think half that is about the bare minimum for any reasonable length cruises… I’ve never been in a position to consider a boat with floatation, but in that general size/quality of boat, I think it has more to do with sea-kindliness, rather than seaworthiness – considering budget of course… Many readily available boats in the 20-25 foot range have made seaman like voyages over the years, so much so that they no longer raise many folk’s eyebrows… Size clearly is often a function of want rather than need, once one gets beyond a certain range… I do observe, however, that as the length gets shorter, the acceptable disp/length ratio goes up as well as other considerations in hull-form that are consistent with heavier boats… doesn’t mean one couldn’t take on seamanlike transoceanic passages in lightweight boats (the Mini- 6.50, or whatever they are called, comes to mind…), but the accommodations might be too austere for many…
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_uk View Post
ETAPs are certified as unsinkable by France's Marine Marchande. To meet its standards, a yacht has to reach stability & floating requirements.
  • When flooded, the boat's freeboard must not be less than 3% of its overall length
  • A flooded boat must float in a 'practically horizontal' position
  • A flooded boat with maximum crew must right itself from a 90 degrees heel
  • A flooded yacht must be capable of being sailed
  • The trickiest component of these requirements is the self-righting aspect; if the buoyancy was concentrated in the lower parts of the hull, then the yacht would tend to stay inverted. Therefore, plenty of foam is required in the topsides & deck, as well as in the bottom & ends, volume which could otherwise be used for stowage.
Ausail Pathfinder Marine Group - ETAP Yachts



The boats seem to have a stability number of 2.17 Capsize screening formula Is that good?
While the value of the "capsize ratio" is hotly disputed, 2.17 is not that great of a number. Under 2 is usually considered good for offshore work.
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:02   #8
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Thanks for all your comments

The Sadler 29 looks like a great boat. Does anyone know how easy it is to raise and lower the mast? Can you do it with lines or is it something you really need a lift for?
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Old 07-10-2010, 14:33   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_uk View Post
The Sadler 29 looks like a great boat. Does anyone know how easy it is to raise and lower the mast? Can you do it with lines or is it something you really need a lift for?
Hey Sam its a long time since i was o this site but I did a piece on the Sadler 29. If you are interested I put on this site somewhere. If you cant find it drop me an e-mail at psg1640@gmail.com and I will send you the pdf I made.
Regards Pete
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Old 07-10-2010, 15:57   #10
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Sail a flooded boat???

G'Day all,

This is a very old thread, but in reading through it I was interested in the French requirements for "unsinkability". They stipulate that the flooded vessel must have freeboard of at least 3% of the OAL, and that it must be able to be sailed whilst flooded.

Sounds good when ya say it real fast.

But, I have to question if that definition is realistically attainable. Taking the 26 foot boat the OP was considering, 3% freeboard would be about 8 inches! With drastically reduced buoyancy from being full of water, EVERY small wave would wash over the boat. The drag from having the hull nearly awash would require a lot of thrust from the sails just to move the boat, even downwind. The righting moment would be reduced (I think) to the point that useful sail trim for even reaching would cause a LOT of heeling, destabilizing the craft even more. In short, I suspect that the idea of "sailing" the flooded but unsinkable boat is a farce. Granted, not sinking is a lot better than sinking, but the false sense of security developed by the rhetoric of the standard is misleading and perhaps dangerous to the innocent owner.

I wonder if anyone has real world experience with such a situation?

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Trinity Inset, CAirns, Qld, Oz
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
G'Day all,

This is a very old thread, but in reading through it I was interested in the French requirements for "unsinkability". They stipulate that the flooded vessel must have freeboard of at least 3% of the OAL, and that it must be able to be sailed whilst flooded.

Sounds good when ya say it real fast.

But, I have to question if that definition is realistically attainable. Taking the 26 foot boat the OP was considering, 3% freeboard would be about 8 inches! With drastically reduced buoyancy from being full of water, EVERY small wave would wash over the boat. The drag from having the hull nearly awash would require a lot of thrust from the sails just to move the boat, even downwind. The righting moment would be reduced (I think) to the point that useful sail trim for even reaching would cause a LOT of heeling, destabilizing the craft even more. In short, I suspect that the idea of "sailing" the flooded but unsinkable boat is a farce. Granted, not sinking is a lot better than sinking, but the false sense of security developed by the rhetoric of the standard is misleading and perhaps dangerous to the innocent owner.

I wonder if anyone has real world experience with such a situation?

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Trinity Inset, CAirns, Qld, Oz
Hi Jim & Ann
Have a look at mikelucas.co.uk and look at the spec for the sadler 26 I think its a bit better than the Etap. Pete
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:08   #12
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Hello Sam
I have sailed on both the Sadler 26's in our Marina and I agree they are a nice boat and sail well, But for European cruising especially if you hit heavy weather, give me a Colvic Watson 25'-6" anyday!
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