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Old 26-05-2009, 18:19   #1
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Flush Deck - No Cockpit

Im a long time lurker of cruisers fourm, but am now considering purchasing my first boat. Lots of experience on hobie cats and a little on a 25' catilina and and a 27' hunter. I found a boat I really like its a 30ft bruce kelly design . I like the boat alot but I have never seen a sail boat with no cockpit. I have searched and searched and have been unable to find much info on flush cockpit boats. Any boy have one, anybody sail one? Where do you sit, do you stand whenevr at the helm?

Looks like this


Thanks in advance for any advice/replys
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Old 26-05-2009, 18:34   #2
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Just because it is a low profile does not mean there is no cockpit. It's there! Race boats tend to be flatter given visibility is premium and sail area desired to be smallest. No one really goes below much in a race so why do they care about it?

Dedicated race boats take a lot of reworking to make them good cruise boats so for the most part I would say unless you really know a lot I would stay away. They need a lot more qualities that a race boat won't have. Many cruise boats are performance oriented but they usually are not the first finishers at a race. This one looks like you could get beat up badly in foul weather. A race is a short duration and crew are able to handle it for a bit. For a few days of storms I would want a whole lot more cover available.

I can understand you saying there is no cockpit but there really is one. It's just not a cruising cockpit. Tankage and interior layout usaully washout former race boats. Once you load the boat up with cruising gear the whole premise of the design is shot anyway. Race boats are meant to be raced and that alone is not enough to cruise with.
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Old 26-05-2009, 18:52   #3
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The boat doesnt really look like a race boat or is set up like one. I dont have any plans for long cruises. Just maybe weekend trips. Maybe over to the bahamas.
Most of my trips would likely be day sails on weekends.
Heres a link to rest of the pictures.
1983 Bruce Kelly Custom sailboat for sale in Florida
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Old 26-05-2009, 19:39   #4
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I'm not sure I'd call that a "dedicated race boat."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
Dedicated race boats take a lot of reworking to make them good cruise boats so for the most part I would say unless you really know a lot I would stay away.
While the hull might have a race heritage, the boat you've pictured is EXTREMELY unique. I looked it up on the sailboat listings, and it seems to redefine the term "custom."

I'd agree with Pblais, however, about staying away unless you really know a lot. REALLY know a lot. Even if I liked the boat, I'd have worries about any boat that size in which the owner claims to have circumnavigated three times. If the claim is true, you'd have to ask at what point does a boat wear out?

1983 Bruce Kelly Custom sailboat for sale in Florida
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Old 26-05-2009, 22:26   #5
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That's a footwell cockpit. My aft deck is flush and cambered, but it's a very different design. There's two helms, one in the pilothouse and one on the deck, and the footwell is about 14 inches deep by 22 inches wide by four feet long. You sit on the deck or stand to steer, but if you get pooped, two 3 inch above the WL scuppers drain directly out. Plug 'em for a quick bath!

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Old 26-05-2009, 23:00   #6
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There's two things being mixed up: no cockpit, just deck and a flush deck without cabin top. The boat in the picture has what merely looks like a footwell but that would qualify as a cockpit still.

A flush deck without cabin top is the preferred way for every boat because it is much stronger. The problem is that you need a certain height of freeboard to create enough standing room inside the boat. Also, you do not get the side windows / portholes.

Jedi doesn't have a cabin top. We have lots of windows in the hull instead and 2 meter standing room. We do have a cockpit but the original Sundeer does not because Steve Dashew doesn't see the need for it other than to be able to sell a boat.

I do like the deck space he got instead... he could put two big dinghies there!

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 27-05-2009, 06:25   #7
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I've seen variations on the no cockpit theme. The idea was to keep the aft end of the boat light if it was pooped. For the most part, they were not self-bailing cockpits & they would cover them up when offshore. It's the first plastic boat I've seen like that.

Seems like you'd really have a sense of "hanging out there."
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Old 27-05-2009, 09:21   #8
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It looks like the footwell doesnt exist.....? like it is filled in.... is that what I'm seeing?
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Old 27-05-2009, 09:42   #9
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Bruce Kelly? Could that be Bruce Kirby?

I had a friend who filled in the cockpit of his C&C 39 before he went cruising.
He liked it.
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Old 27-05-2009, 09:56   #10
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Someone once asked a veterinarian what kind of dog she should get. The vet thought a bit, then said, "If it were me, I'd get a Chihuahua." The future-dog-owner was intrigued, and asked, "Why a Chihuahua?"

"Because," the vet replied, "if it died, I wouldn't care."

This "Bruce Kelly" vessel for less than $12,000 is a bit like that, in my view. If I only had that much money invested in a vessel that looked like this one and it sank beneath the waves, I wouldn't care.

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Old 27-05-2009, 10:38   #11
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I'd stay away from this boat.
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Old 27-05-2009, 15:58   #12
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I'd stay away from this boat.
Why?


I dont understand all the negativity with no real input. What looks that wrong with it? Seams to be in decent shape with decent equpiment.
About the size im looking for, and the price is right?
I have never owned a sailboat before, and have limited experience on anything besides hobie cats. What am I not seeing, any input or suggestions what should I be looking for?
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Old 27-05-2009, 17:18   #13
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Dude, I didn't mean no disrespect. If you think this is the right boat for you go ahead and get it.

But if you want a bit more details on why I'd stay away from this boat, here they are:

I sailed for 3 months on a racing sailboat that looked similar to the one you are looking at (from Montreal to the Bahamas) and I can tell you one thing: the comfort level is near to none and on the long run, it really gets to you. After all, you are on the water to enjoy yourself, not to be miserable. The headroom is 5'6''. How tall are you? Are you ready to bend every time you move inside? How many times do you think you will knock your head in a given week? Look at the "cockpit" outside, where will you sit to relax and have a cold beer? The seller mentions it's a custom design. From the pictures, I think he really means it's homemade. Very low resell potential.

I could go on and on but my intention is not to rain on your parade, far from it. If the boat "talks" to you for some reason, get it and don't look back. You will find ways to enjoy it for what it is I'm sure of that. Somebody else did and travelled around the world with it. Many people with deluxe boats never leave the marina.

But keep this in mind: with the economic crisis, there are a lot of good deals out there and there will be even more in the months to come. I got myself a very decent Hunter 34 for $11,000 last Fall...
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Old 27-05-2009, 17:28   #14
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For day sailing in nice weather it would be fine and very fun too. When it gets a little cold and a bit ugly on the weather side, this is not going to be a comfortable or dry sailing experience.

What you spend on buying a boat like this is a drop in the bucket over a 5 year cost of ownership and that is without any extra work required that we can't see in the picture. Purchase price should be affordable but the real money comes over the next 5 years. The less you pay up front the more they get on the back end.
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Old 27-05-2009, 17:49   #15
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Sorry didnt mean to come off like that, Just confused........
Head room, not much of an issue im only 5' 7
The cockpit is what bothers me.....or lack there of.
Where the do you sit. IF I wanted to sit flat on the ground Id get a hobie cat. The boat looks nice and has decent equipment compared to other boats ive seen in that price range. Im ok with finding a boat that needs work. (love to find something nice with a bad engine Im a mechanic by trade.)
How about something like this?
Cheoy Lee Clipper 33 Ketch - 110 Cold A/C:eBay Motors (item 290319906372 end time Jun-01-09 19:28:09 PDT)
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