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Old 11-11-2016, 11:29   #76
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

Wellington 47

Though of buying one ages ago. swing keel, shallow draft and a huge boat



and the Islander 33

just about the same hull as my islander 34 but with a wide flush deck. Seen one or two on the Bay.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:34   #77
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Wellington 47

Though of buying one ages ago. swing keel, shallow draft and a huge boat



and the Islander 33

just about the same hull as my islander 34 but with a wide flush deck. Seen one or two on the Bay.
The venerable islander 33 ( my next boat BTW). Plenty of head room and just a bit under 4 ft from WL to the raised deck. IMO that's not to much windage.
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:26   #78
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

[QUOTE=Polux;2255654]There is no miracles and on a small cruising boat to have a flush deck you will not have standing height unless you have huge and disproportionate free boards.

The minimum lateral wind resistance (windage) is a very important parameter in any sailboat design but you will not have less windage if you raise the freeboards a lot. I would say that in cruising boats under 50ft flush decks, all things considered are not a good option.

Let me point ou that it makes no sense to have flush decks if you are going to put a dinghy over, so for that to result in an aesthetically way the boat should have a dingy garage or be big enough to have davits (not a nice solution).

Over that size I like them and they are certainly one of the dominant, design trends in what regards modern cruising design. Well, even if not true flush decks at least, a tendency for that, like on most of the boats that have been posted on this thread. Some of my favorites:



I couldn't agree less. Windage is not increased. Wind only cares about the height of the boat's profile which is typically the same. In terms of dinghy storage what difference does it make if the boat is on a deck or cabin top? Regarding the size of flush or raised deck boats, smaller boats are where this design really shines as the interior volume is maximized in relation to the LOD.
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Old 11-11-2016, 12:45   #79
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

[QUOTE=Scout 30;2255824]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
There is no miracles and on a small cruising boat to have a flush deck you will not have standing height unless you have huge and disproportionate free boards.

The minimum lateral wind resistance (windage) is a very important parameter in any sailboat design but you will not have less windage if you raise the freeboards a lot. I would say that in cruising boats under 50ft flush decks, all things considered are not a good option.

Let me point ou that it makes no sense to have flush decks if you are going to put a dinghy over, so for that to result in an aesthetically way the boat should have a dingy garage or be big enough to have davits (not a nice solution).

Over that size I like them and they are certainly one of the dominant, design trends in what regards modern cruising design. Well, even if not true flush decks at least, a tendency for that, like on most of the boats that have been posted on this thread. Some of my favorites:



I couldn't agree less. Windage is not increased. Wind only cares about the height of the boat's profile which is typically the same. In terms of dinghy storage what difference does it make if the boat is on a deck or cabin top? Regarding the size of flush or raised deck boats, smaller boats are where this design really shines as the interior volume is maximized in relation to the LOD.
Scout I agree with you wholeheartedly how many 24 ft sailboats actually have the interior volume to qualify for documentation according to the USCG measuring rules.
( my islander Bahama 24 does but isn't documented )
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Old 11-11-2016, 13:56   #80
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

At least with the Columbia 29 mk1 and the Defender, I have read it was determined the Defender had less windage in spite of higher freeboard. I have not been in one but it may have a little less headroom.
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Old 11-11-2016, 14:14   #81
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

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At least with the Columbia 29 mk1 and the Defender, I have read it was determined the Defender had less windage in spite of higher freeboard. I have not been in one but it may have a little less headroom.
That is true and most of our smaller raised deck boats do actually have less windage than the trunk versions the tradeoff for the extra room in the cabin and the flush deck is in most of them that I have been on both versions of is about 6 inches of decreased headroom. ( well worth it to me for a large safe deck to work on in heavy weather)
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Old 11-11-2016, 14:34   #82
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

Ericson 39
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Old 11-11-2016, 15:15   #83
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

[QUOTE=Scout 30;2255824]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
There is no miracles and on a small cruising boat to have a flush deck you will not have standing height unless you have huge and disproportionate free boards.

The minimum lateral wind resistance (windage) is a very important parameter in any sailboat design but you will not have less windage if you raise the freeboards a lot. I would say that in cruising boats under 50ft flush decks, all things considered are not a good option.

Let me point ou that it makes no sense to have flush decks if you are going to put a dinghy over, so for that to result in an aesthetically way the boat should have a dingy garage or be big enough to have davits (not a nice solution).

Over that size I like them and they are certainly one of the dominant, design trends in what regards modern cruising design. Well, even if not true flush decks at least, a tendency for that, like on most of the boats that have been posted on this thread. Some of my favorites:



I couldn't agree less. Windage is not increased. Wind only cares about the height of the boat's profile which is typically the same. In terms of dinghy storage what difference does it make if the boat is on a deck or cabin top? Regarding the size of flush or raised deck boats, smaller boats are where this design really shines as the interior volume is maximized in relation to the LOD.
It is hard to understand with what you don't agree. It seems you did not understood what I said. I did not said that the windage was increased, I said that it would not be diminished when you raise the freeboard not to have a cabin, on a small boat that needs standing height.

Having higher freeboards on a small boat for compensating the interior height the cabin would provide is an aesthetic decision. I don't like it on small boats and it seems most think like me (at least today) because that option is not used on modern designs (on small boats).

I take the opportunity for posting about one of the last small designs (42ft) with flush deck, the Victoire 1270 classic (not made anymore). In this case it was possible because the boat features an old hull, narrow, with a lot of rock that goes deeper in the water than modern hulls and therefore can provide a bigger interior height.

Even if with an old and underperformed hull I like the boat looks and the classical interior but the freeboard is noticeably higher than on the other Victorie model with the same length and a cabin:


Between the two I believe that the version with cabin and a lesser freeboard is more elegant. We are talking here about 42ft boat, on smaller boats the differences will be bigger.

What I was trying to say is that only on boats over 50ft it is possible to have a comfortable standing weight dispensing the cabin and not increasing the freeboard.
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Old 11-11-2016, 15:32   #84
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

OK for some reason I can't post these pictures but here are the links to the islander 29 a trunk cabin model and the original 30 a flush deck version
ISLANDER 29 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
ISLANDER 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
If you notice they are the same hull but the 30 has a deck that is actually lower windage than the 29 trunk cabin is. And yet both have 6+ ft of headroom.
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:12   #85
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
OK for some reason I can't post these pictures but here are the links to the islander 29 a trunk cabin model and the original 30 a flush deck version
ISLANDER 29 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
ISLANDER 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
If you notice they are the same hull but the 30 has a deck that is actually lower windage than the 29 trunk cabin is. And yet both have 6+ ft of headroom.
I found I cannot post the photos from Sailboatdata site using copy/paste like most sites.

What I do is simply do Google Search for a boat model, then click on "IMAGES" in the Google Search bar. I look over the images and if I see the boat plan/drawing, I copy and then use that (I have to save then upload). That is what works for me, and I can usually find those plan/drawings along with several good photos of any boat using Google Image search.

Good luck.
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:30   #86
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
OK for some reason I can't post these pictures but here are the links to the islander 29 a trunk cabin model and the original 30 a flush deck version
ISLANDER 29 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
ISLANDER 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
If you notice they are the same hull but the 30 has a deck that is actually lower windage than the 29 trunk cabin is. And yet both have 6+ ft of headroom.





It seems pretty close to me and again I never said that it had more windage, only said that it had not less for the same standing height. what I said is that in my opinion the boat with higher freeboard is less elegant even if that in what regards "windows" the ones from the 29 are a disgrace and the ones from the 30 a lot better.

Even regarding this boat it seems it is not only my opinion since it is very hard to find photos of the Islander 30 and very easy to find photos of the Islander 29 (lots of them, one only from the 30). That means that the 29 was a much more popular boat. Both boats are from 1968.
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Old 11-11-2016, 16:40   #87
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

[QUOTE=Polux;2255914]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post

It is hard to understand with what you don't agree. It seems you did not understood what I said. I did not said that the windage was increased, I said that it would not be diminished when you raise the freeboard not to have a cabin, on a small boat that needs standing height.

Having higher freeboards on a small boat for compensating the interior height the cabin would provide is an aesthetic decision. I don't like it on small boats and it seems most think like me (at least today) because that option is not used on modern designs (on small boats).

I take the opportunity for posting about one of the last small designs (42ft) with flush deck, the Victoire 1270 classic (not made anymore). In this case it was possible because the boat features an old hull, narrow, with a lot of rock that goes deeper in the water than modern hulls and therefore can provide a bigger interior height.

Even if with an old and underperformed hull I like the boat looks and the classical interior but the freeboard is noticeably higher than on the other Victorie model with the same length and a cabin:

Between the two I believe that the version with cabin and a lesser freeboard is more elegant. We are talking here about 42ft boat, on smaller boats the differences will be bigger.

What I was trying to say is that only on boats over 50ft it is possible to have a comfortable standing weight dispensing the cabin and not increasing the freeboard.


I do agree that windage is not decreased with a raised deck. I think raised deck & flush deck are getting confused here. Raised deck boats were common through the 20's & for me it's a great retro look if done right. [IMG]As with any boat design there are pleasing examples & some that are not so pleasing. The Stone Horse, Krogen 38 & CSY 37 are a few fiberglass designs I like. Sam Crocker designed several raised deck cruiser that were quite pleasing to the eye. I do agree that flush deck boat designs are harder to make attractive but they really don't apply to small boats as the interior volume is actually reduced rather than enhanced. Here's a link to a Gatsby that is my cup of tea:

https://www.atlanticyachtandship.ru/...9/1988/215612/
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Old 11-11-2016, 17:00   #88
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

[QUOTE=Scout 30;2255971]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post



I do agree that windage is not decreased with a raised deck. I think raised deck & flush deck are getting confused here. Raised deck boats were common through the 20's & for me it's a great retro look if done right. [IMG]As with any boat design there are pleasing examples & some that are not so pleasing. The Stone Horse, Krogen 38 & CSY 37 are a few fiberglass designs I like. Sam Crocker designed several raised deck cruiser that were quite pleasing to the eye. I do agree that flush deck boat designs are harder to make attractive but they really don't apply to small boats as the interior volume is actually reduced rather than enhanced. Here's a link to a Gatsby that is my cup of tea:

https://www.atlanticyachtandship.ru/...9/1988/215612/
This thread is about Flush deck that is not the same as raised deck. This boat that you posted the link is not a flushed deck, it is a pilot house boat (and a motorsailer), a nice one.

The definition of flushed deck is this: "Flush deck is a term in naval architecture. It can refer to any deck of a ship which is continuous from stem to stern"
This is what really is even if the term is used also regarding sailboats that have very small variation from stem to stern and in sailboats normally the cockpit is not considered on the variation. If we wanted to be absolutely rigorous a flush deck would be this:
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Old 11-11-2016, 17:34   #89
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

For the purposes of this discussion thread, I intend to be somewhat flexible in which boats are consider "Flush Deck" boats.

I have read the definitions, examined many boats, and determined to my own satisfaction, that an open discussion on boats that to most will be called a "Flush Deck" design is best, rather than a strict definition.

Some of the boats, may have a pilot house, a dog house, a wheel house, a hard dodger or a small or low cabin. I have seen so many variations and think for this forum and this thread, it is best to be somewhat flexible, not rigid on what we show.
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Old 11-11-2016, 17:55   #90
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Re: Flush Deck Boats Illustrated Guide

Southern Wind (Custom)

Yacht = "ALLSMOKE"

LOA = 27.5 meters

Just Launched NOVEMBER 2017.
http://www.boatinternational.com/yac...llsmoke--31975

"
Allsmoke features a 6.96 metre beam as well as a lifting keel, which means that her draft can be reduced from 5.8 metres to 3.8 metres, making shallow anchorages more easily accessible without deploying the tender. Key features include a detachable bowsprit that can reduce the LOA to 26.5 metres.

Accommodation on board Allsmoke is for six guests in three en-suite cabins. The owner’s suite includes a superyacht office with a convertible settee that can increase the capacity to eight guests."
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