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Old 19-03-2012, 00:42   #1
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Thumbs up First Time Buyer

Hello all!

My partner and I are looking to purchase our first boat (well first boat that will float - previous one was not water tight )

We are looking to go around the world in it, and are hoping to leave within the next 12 months.

We are looking around the $50k mark - do you think this is possible? do you recommend monohull? fibreglass?

We live in Brisbane Australia and will be looking around this area (most likely) so also any websites that you recommend, or marinas?

HELLLPPPP Please

Cheers!
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Old 19-03-2012, 01:11   #2
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Re: First Time buyer

My opinion for anyone planning to cruise "long range" is to not limit your purchase horizon to local brokers. MarkJ bought his boat in Florida(?), my brother just bought his boat in Thailand. Both are Aussies. Depending on where you buy and how you set it up you can avoid GST. And if you sell before going back to Aus may never have to.

If you are on a journey, it matters not much where you start! Admittedly the "scariness" of buying a boat in a foreign land is there but we have trusted CFers all over the world who can usually offer up advice on "trausted" brokers...
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Old 19-03-2012, 01:49   #3
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Re: First Time buyer

GF is a better bet than a wooden boat, certainly at the budget you have. You'll really have to visit many boats to get a decent one at that price. Length is important for ocean crossing, mainly for storage. Engine, standing rig, simple systems have to be fairly high on your list. So do DIY skills. Strip and replace the fuel system, replace the stays and shrouds, all new ropes, a new set of sails. Now work out what you have left to buy the boat. Certainly starting in Aussi will need a much tougher boat than hopping down the american coast or around the Med, even if you start in the UK/Europe.
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Old 19-03-2012, 04:10   #4
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Re: First Time buyer

Advice can be what is possible, probable and what is advisable.

Reality is that you are talking about a limited budget for what you have in mind. Beyond that budget is a desire to find a way to finance the trip by sponsorship, sell product (footage, photos and / or stories). What you are trying to market is your dream, what you need to market is a dream that can become the dream and reality of others. So when you pitch your product pitch it as a dream that is within the finincail reality of others not just a small group of the well to do. In this way you turn one of the negatives (a very limited buying budget) as a positive in that the views/ readers can identify with you.

Even this leaves you with the problem of getting the best boat for you buck (well $50000) The last place that i would be looking would be queensland. Australia has a 2 paced economy and queensland presents you with two issues; a group of people with real buying power, high demand for certain trades caused by mining and flood reconstruction. On top of this there is the issue of the higher cost of parts and equiptment resulting from transport costs, small markets and import requirements. All of this suports Ex Cals sugestions of an offshore purchase. As an added bonus the trip to buy a boat in the States would be a story in its-self unlike a purchase in Australia, and would be a stand alone product as well as an introduction and trailer shown. Once you are off and saling it will be a lot harder to do the running around to organise sponsorship and / or sales.
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Old 19-03-2012, 04:17   #5
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Re: First Time buyer

A quick look on YachtHub found 98 monohulls in Queensland 36' to 40' under $100k which would put them within possible negotiation distance of your budget. Most struck me as coastal cruisers rather than RTW boats.

Some may suit. The problem is to work out which are suitable for what you want, and what the final cost after upgrading/repairing/improving/renewing would be.

My feeling is that cheap boats in Australia are not much different in price to cheap boats everywhere else, and the Aussie one are going to be far cheaper and easier to look at.

I'd suggest reading up on surveying and finding a reliable surveyor before going out and taking a look. Having cheap hardstand available so you could pull the boat out of the water to work on it could be desirable.

I usually mention kissing many frogs before finding a princess but since you're in Queensland it's going to be cane toads. Watch out for hallucinations!

Your biggest problem could be your time frame. I originally set 3 years as my target. Now, 5 years later the boats still not finished but I'm hoping to go anyway. With your budget one year may not be realistic.
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Old 19-03-2012, 05:52   #6
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Re: First Time buyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie escapade View Post
Hello all!

My partner and I are looking to purchase our first boat (well first boat that will float - previous one was not water tight )

We are looking to go around the world in it, and are hoping to leave within the next 12 months.

We are looking around the $50k mark - do you think this is possible? do you recommend monohull? fibreglass?

We live in Brisbane Australia and will be looking around this area (most likely) so also any websites that you recommend, or marinas?

HELLLPPPP Please

Cheers!
Possible? - yes
Likely? - Mmmmm....

For me the biggest drawback is your (apparent) lack of knowledge of all things boaty (although having owned a leaky boat is a big plus - for the 2nd boat!) - with a low budget easy to buy something that is more than can be chewed.

But, FWIW although big plusses to buying near "home", if you don't find something suitable then I would go for buying overseas and treat your buying trip as a part / the start of the adventure - and for that I would pick one country / area to base yourself in.

For cheap living ashore can't really beat SE Asia, but boat choice more limited (although deals can be had from vessels being out of position / owners wishing to get shot off from a dead dream - but that's a timing / luck issue).....personally I would look closely at the USA, as seems to be the home of cheap boats, plus they have e-bay etc. Downside is that cost of living is higher than SE Asia, so may feel some time pressure on buying.........and then figure on starting off in the Carribean to get your bearings (and having fun!), before deciding on Pacific, South America or Europe.

Whichever route, the keys will be pre-planning....and buying the right boat (and on that I would have a good idea of what you need and want (2 different things!) - but be open on the model and willing to accept early on that you will never find everything you want on a boat - no one does!).

Good luck! (and keep us all posted on your search ).
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Old 19-03-2012, 09:34   #7
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Re: First Time buyer

Just a note on your budget. Divide by 3. One third to buy an oldish boat, one third to equip it, one third to maintain it for five years. Now look at what you can afford.
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Old 19-03-2012, 09:57   #8
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Re: First Time buyer

All is not lost due to budget. I was very lucky on my first open ocean capable boat 20 years ago. Bought at that time, what was a 20+ year old Cal 40 for $16K and as "Eleven" mentioned, wound up matching the purchase price with cruising systems, i.e., solar, inverter, watermaker, wind vane steering, HF SSB, well, you get the idea. I have recently been checking in on the current values of the Cal 40, and am happy to report you are able to get a cruise ready boat in your budget.

Something about the Cal 40, it is a narrow beam old race boat, that when introduced almost 50 years ago was deemed radical. This is still by today's standards, a very fast and capable cruiser that has a strong following and class racing.

I didn't quite stumble into buying the Cal 40, but was swayed by a huge, hard cover book I bought about cruising, written by Steve & Linda Dashew. It was the only boat that was truly in my price range that received glowing reports in that book. After buying, outfitting, then single handing to Mexico, I was very pleased in my decision. You know when you decide to do or purchase something "outside the box", and it turns out to be the absolute best decision for you, that is how I felt about the Cal 40.

There are currently (4) Cal 40's on the market, all within your budget. What other boat could you buy at that price range that can roar downwind a 16 kt? None that I know of, some pictures of a Cal 40........

















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Old 19-03-2012, 09:59   #9
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Re: First Time buyer

You might want to buy a good book -- Hal Roth's "How to Sail Around the World" is pretty good and he spends a good bit of time talking about boat construction, pros and cons of each, etc., as well as features of a boat that are good to consider. I don't agree with everything he says (you will find that to be a common trait of sailors), but he brings up the important issues.

Have you done much (any?) open ocean sailing? It is quite different from going day sailing in protected waters. I'd strongly recommend getting a good taste of it before spending lots of money. You don't want to be in the situation of having spent big bucks, get two days out and then one (or both) of you going "get me outta here!"

Learn, learn, and learn some more! Find a sailing school/club/friends who've done it and spend as much time as you can on the water. Even the smallest and simplest of long distance cruising boats are shockingly complex machines and even the smallest and simplest of components can leave you in a bad way when (notice I didn't say "if") they break and you don't know what to do.

I agree with Boracay on your time frame. If you're starting from square 1, then a 1-year time frame is pretty short and will go by very fast. Not impossible if you dedicate yourself and don't have many distractions (like a job), but that's a pretty tight schedule. Two years would be far more do-able, and three more likely. Even after you've decided on a boat, finding said boat could take some time, and then you will very likely want to make some changes. Taking a reasonably conservative approach, you will want to take progressively longer and more challenging local cruises to both build your experience, know your boat, and shake down the boat.

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Old 24-03-2012, 01:38   #10
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Re: First Time buyer

Firstly thankyou everyone for your advise. This forum is fantastic and it is only as good as the people who are apart of it!
I think the first step will definately be to undertake further courses. I want to do the competent crew course, a naviation couse and charter a boat up QLD coast before heading off.
It is interesting on the comments relating to purchasing a boat outside of Australia and I will definitely ensure we shop around. Looks like 50K might be wishing for something a bit too cheap for what we want to achieve, but we will see.
There are so many options and it all seems a bit overwhelming but i guess one step at a time.
I will be sure to keep you all informed as to the progress of purchasing a boat.
Thanks again for all your suggestions!
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Old 25-03-2012, 10:39   #11
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Dear,

Just my input while the rest of the family is talking in Kurdish (a language I don't understand).

I bought my 27 feet (8.x meter) boat for 9000 Euro 5 years ago. Then got married. Had it brought over to the UK last fall. After having spend a lot on a new engine and a paint job. All professionally done. Also had a new VHF radio installed. I have my VHF licence now.

Now taking more courses now. The courses are to get the licences too. I plan to top the experience up by sailing on my own boat while taking on board more experienced sailors. People who have already gone further on the licencing road but who need more sea miles before being allowed to sit exams to allow them to officially become sailing instructors. Or to allow them to get paid work on board bigger boats; or to deliver boats from one part of the world to an other. Karol and Jes are the women I start to sail with. They have taken intensively courses for the past 3 years. I don t plan to engage in commercial sailing but it will take time to gain a certain level of experience and the paperwork (CEVNI certificate; International Certificate of Competence ICC,...) to e.g. be allowed to enter the channels in France.

Good I did not set sail 5 years ago. These courses are great and nowadays seemly becoming compulsery. They also add to an atmosphere of scare. Maybe sometimes too much. Scare drives the market: more courses, plotter, Navtex, radar, ....

The larger the boat the more comfort but costs and legal requirements go up as well. Berthing fees are calculated by the meter. In a boat over 10 meters you can find the space for a breadmachine and a bigger engine to produce the electricity but you will also have to install seperate tanks for clean and dirty water. Not so in smaller boats.

People have sailed around the globe in a boat like mine. Nowadays the sailing magazines are all about racing, shiny white boats, tons of advertizement for expensive but likely indeed technologically advanced products etc.

I think your budget is fine. Figure out how much you are able to do in maintainance yourself e.g. to upgrade an older boat. DIY means you don t have factory / installers warranty and you need to buy tools.
I plan to take anyway a 7 days Boat and Engine Maintainance workshop / course this fall. Almost 700 UK Pound without hotel costs.

Figure out which road to go is best. Once you buy a boat there are costs but you ll have taken an engagement. A boat of 27 feet, with an inboard engine, toilet, some storage and sleeping space (in theory for 6) and a kitchenette is a good start. Certainly if well maintained you can sell it off when plans change.

Not every marina is as expensive but think also about facilities, safety, closeness to where you live on land etc. I once considered to harbour my boat in a remote tidal mud pool. About 8 times cheaper as what I pay now in a posh marina. Would have needed the dinghy to get on board and only at high tide. Should have needed a generator on fuel to work with power tools. There was infighting between people surviving on grounded boats, the elderly sail club members and the boat (more junk) yard owner. Glad I opted for the posh marina. There is a toilet, showers, wifi,... Can look for cheaper later, when I get to know the landscape. Then consider Dry Berthing. Much cheaper and they put your boat in the water (or on the boat parking) if you call them a day before. Onboard batteries charged for you and no algea on the hull. - I already get to know things.

Success with the planning. Keep dreaming and make a move on your own efforts. Only use crowdfunding (kickstarter, ...) when you really feel having something to offer. Sailing is largely about independence; carried on a sea of goodness. Keep the right course and you will enjoy whatever comes to you.

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Old 27-03-2012, 13:36   #12
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Re: First Time Buyer

This newlywed couple bought a nice 32 foot boat within their $20,000 - $30,000 US budget and sailed off to the Bahamas:

Sailing the Tanqueray
Our journey from marriage to homeless, to jobless to living on a 32 foot sailboat as newlyweds to cruising south down the inter-coastal waterway and into the Bahamas and beyond for 1 year...

Sailing the Tanqueray: Our Boat
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Old 28-03-2012, 08:37   #13
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Re: First Time Buyer

Well, I have been looking for the past year at the Australian boat market, in the low price class is 95% rubbish, bad designs, run down or old racers.The old TLC line starts getting to me..a slap of paint mate and she is as good as gold...well, why doesent the seller put on the slap of paint in the first place? Ah they forget to tell me the engine is in need of replacement due to a leeky head gasket, now the engine is seized solid, could have been fixed quite easely in the first place.
So, I am now looking at the oversaeas market..what a surprise..for a 100k I can buy a basically good (43-50')boat with lots of equipment ( needed or not).
In the US I so far found the brokers very professionel and helpful, Lankawi, Phuket all good...Philippines not much choice and poor brokerage
Happy hunting
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:28   #14
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Re: First Time Buyer

Firstly congrats on deciding to pursue such a worthy dream!!!
Read Read Read. Chartering up the Whitsundays would be a good idea and keep hanging around cruisers and forums. Buying overseas is a good proposition for experienced cruisers looking at boats 100k+ IMHO. For your purposes and with your budget I would be buying in OZ.

Your budget as I'm sure you realise is limiting but I disagree with some previous posters, there is no doubt that you CAN find a boat that will do what you want in the local Aussie market, as long as you are realistic about what you expect from it. On your budget it will not be either a large boat, or a luxurious boat. You will be living and sailing simply, but you can sail across oceans and around the world safely.

Boats I would look at here in Oz:

Sparkman and Stephens 34 The quintessential aussie circumnavigator. For a couple they are not spacious.

Clansman 30's........I know of one that sailed from Sydney to the Med.

Eastcoast 31.........Plenty of these did Sydney-Hobart in their day, a couple also went to the Pacific.

Phantom 32/33 Good fast(it's all relative) boat, I know of one that has cruised to the Pacific.

Jarkan 35..... Maybe just out of your budget, Centre Cockpit means very liveable aft cabin......a good get if you can find one. An Australian family did a circumnavigation on one.

Adams 35. Steel. look for a good example.

Manitou 32 Not the prettiest boat in the world, but one at least has circumnavigated.

Swanson 36/32 Old but proven aussie blueewater boats.

Roberts almost anything that falls in that price bracket, beware of dogs be careful and/or wiling to do some work.

Mottle 33 Not my favourite centre cockpit, but an option at the top of your bracket. A few have gone to the Pacific and up Asia. I think I heard of one that went around but not entirely sure.

Now my pick would be a Swanson 36, or a S&S 34. Just my 2 cents. Or buy a Clansman and spend the change making sure she is ready.
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