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Old 15-06-2011, 19:11   #76
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Fish chowder ? Nah ! I'd keep sailing.

On the other hand I would certainly heave to for pea and ham.
Mmm. Pea and ham. Good call.

Of course it would only be decent to hail mary a thermos full of it to the fella who passed you earlier as you sail (slowly) by. He'll be the one taking a break from washing his drawers after weathering that storm.

Turtle - 1. Rabbit - 0.

But that's just my impression, folks. Remember, y'all - I'm new at this.
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Old 15-06-2011, 19:28   #77
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

who heaves to in a squall--simrad deals with weather and ketches sail thru it nicely with jib and mizzen. soup is made at anchor. we hit 60 kts north of cabo san lucas,made 8+kts in my formosa..LOL--you gonna tell me you will heave to and wait out the wind?? --USE IT!!!! rofl.
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Old 15-06-2011, 19:57   #78
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

i am strangely attracted to the 2011 Beneteau Oceanis 34...
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Old 15-06-2011, 20:01   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseDawg

Fish chowder sounds about right.

Sorry, y'all. I didn't aim to cause a ruckus. Just trying to figger out what sort of boat I want later on. I'm leaning decidedly towards a modified full-keel arrangement. Just sounds more reliable all around, and speed really ain't my thing.
Bisque definably better especially when had upon a modified full keel
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Old 15-06-2011, 20:06   #80
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

Fin keel or full keel, skeg hung rudder or spade rudder ... there are always going to be advantages and disadvantages to any yacht design. There will always be compromises to be made e.g. increased draft means potentially better sailing ability, but some places are just too shallow for you.

Every benefit has a cost associated with it. There aint no such thing as a free lunch. So ..... you makes your choice and you takes your chances. The best thing you can do is to try and use or maximise the strengths of the design of your boat and avoid or minimise the weaknesses.

The most important thing is to actually get out there and do it. Sitting in your armchair pontificating about how a fin keel boat can't do this or a full keel boat can't do that is just a whole heap of hot air. If'n ya get off your butt and try it, you might just find that what the internet says is so may not be true. And just remember .... opinions are like buttholes - everyone's got one and most of them stink.
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Old 15-06-2011, 20:25   #81
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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The most important thing is to actually get out there and do it. Sitting in your armchair pontificating about how a fin keel boat can't do this or a full keel boat can't do that is just a whole heap of hot air. If'n ya get off your butt and try it, you might just find that what the internet says is so may not be true. And just remember .... opinions are like buttholes - everyone's got one and most of them stink.
Thanks for the gut check. Actually, I was just trying to be funny...ermm...mixed results. Could be my confusing terminology.

It seems that there's a whole lot more to it than keel design. Got it.
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Old 15-06-2011, 20:36   #82
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You are correct. We are still talking about displacement sailboats.

Now if you were debating whether to buy a boat with or without a keel , or with or without a rudder, then it may really matter.

If you want to get there with ultimate speed and comfort, save your money for a first class plane ticket. Otherwise be prepared for speed in breeze, none in doldrums, scary moments and wetness in storms and lumpy conditions, and ultimate bliss in nice sailing weather and beautiful anchorages and sunsets.

These are independent of the small detail of whether your rudder is attached to your keel or not.
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Old 15-06-2011, 20:39   #83
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The type of keel also indicates the main design goals of the boat. I prefer a skeg hung rudder, a full keel with a cut a way fore-foot and bite before the skeg. This usually is associated with a wine glass hull.
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Old 15-06-2011, 21:21   #84
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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To comment on the above: I mentioned this thread to a buddy here in the frozen north. He observed that the fella cheerfully leaving the "ancient vessel with a full keel" in his wake could 12 hours later be the same guy who'll be slinging drogue and spitting seawater while trying not to broach while the former will be below drinking soup while hove to during a squall. Any truth to that idea?
If you are seriously concerned about whether you are going as fast or faster than another sailor you happen across out in the big empty, then perhaps it is time to consider that maybe you should be staying inshore and doing the racing thing. You should be hailing them on the VHF and saying 'Hi'.

As far as the comfort/safety comparisons between full vs fin keels I am not going to wade into that quagmire, that's almost as bad as mono/multi or anchor choice questions.
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Old 15-06-2011, 21:23   #85
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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The type of keel also indicates the main design goals of the boat. I prefer a skeg hung rudder, a full keel with a cut a way fore-foot and bite before the skeg. This usually is associated with a wine glass hull.
If you have a full keel, wouldn't that be an attached or keel hung rudder? Alternatively if you have a skeg hung rudder would you then likely have a long fin?
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Old 15-06-2011, 21:57   #86
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

Quote:
Thanks for the gut check. Actually, I was just trying to be funny...ermm...mixed results. Could be my confusing terminology.

It seems that there's a whole lot more to it than keel design. Got it
I wasn't directing any pointed comments at anyone in particular, just trying to point out that opinions don't necessarily equal truth and you really are not going to be able to sort out which type of boat is best for you by staring at a computer screen.

I get the feeling that most people think light to medium displacement modern yacht when they think fin keel. That's not necessarily true. There are some heavier displacement boats with fin keels too. There also seems to be a belief that full keeled boats sail like small buildings ... and that isn't necessarily the truth either. And even if you accept that there are mistaken generalisations and exceptions to every rule, the fact remains that what suits one person possibly won't suit another. You simply won't know what suits you and your cruising aspirations and style from what suits other peoples points of view.

If you can find someone who is cruising in a style that resonates with you, then sure model what they're doing and see if that fits. But ultimately, you're not going to know if it fits until you try it on for size. You can read a dozen books on how to ride a bicycle, can debate the merits of big wheel vs small wheel, bicycle vs tricycle vs unicycle, gather opinions on the best tyres to fit, the most comfortable seat, etc, etc .... but at the end of that you still won't be able to ride a bike.

I would strongly recommend going sailing on other people's boats ... as many different types and styles as you can get your butt on .... and see what seems like the most practical to you and what you want to do.
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:35   #87
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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Originally Posted by ReeseDawg View Post
Sorry, y'all. I didn't aim to cause a ruckus. Just trying to figger out what sort of boat I want later on. I'm leaning decidedly towards a modified full-keel arrangement. Just sounds more reliable all around, and speed really ain't my thing.

Consider how many "passages" you'll be making vs. how many day sails. How many times your going to come up to and leave a dock vs. how many times your going to sail through a storm.

And then try and get one of the full keel boats to turn motoring in reverse. Sure, some will, but the whole basic design basically gets in the way. Some of the fin keel and spade rudder'd boats will almost spin circles around there short little keel.
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Old 15-06-2011, 23:53   #88
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Bisque definably better especially when had upon a modified full keel
Are you saying bisque doesn't go too good with a fin keel ?

Inquiring minds (and stomachs) need to know.
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Old 16-06-2011, 00:13   #89
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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I wasn't directing any pointed comments at anyone in particular, just trying to point out that opinions don't necessarily equal truth and you really are not going to be able to sort out which type of boat is best for you by staring at a computer screen.
Hey, that's not nice.

How do you expect the nice owners of CF to pay the bills if you encourage people to get off their computers?
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Old 16-06-2011, 07:52   #90
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

rofl--but it is true!!!!
full keel boats like mine do like a lot of wind and a deep sea and they are very comfy.
my ericson also is good-- she is fin/spade-- short raange and fast, can spin in her own length--lol--and i have fun doing so --- cannot do that with my formosa..LOL...i call formosa a brick, but building is also good comparison..LOL--- but these actually sail nicely and do a wonderful job in big winds where my ericson will knock down or become so skittish as tonot want to be there--i would never ake my ericson in 60 kt winds for a daysail. formosa did wonderfully well in 60 kt winds-- was like sailing in a 15 kt breeze only fast!!! she was clocked at 8+ kts with only jib and mizzen flying--both reefed..LOL
conidering boats werent made to backup like a car, i see n9othing wrong with the lack of ability for any boat to reverse.
sail everything and have fun doing so and see what it is you really and truly like before ypu spend irreversible funding on something with which you are not sincerely happy.
cf will still be here when ye return to the puter to report your findings....
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