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Old 19-05-2011, 15:21   #46
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pirate Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

Everything is theoretical till your out on the water then lets be honest... its more about the man behind the wheel or at the tiller than figures on a spreadsheet...
At least thats what I've found.. argue about it all you want...
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Old 19-05-2011, 15:49   #47
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
just don't let go of that wheel !! your boat will round up into the wind quick as a wink whilst the full keel will sail a straight line to the horizon

What a load of cr*p! Are you saying that those of us with a spade rudder don't know know to trim our sails? Or is your point that on a full keel boat sail trim just doesn't matter because the boat goes where it wants regardless?

Either choice is just cr*p!
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Old 19-05-2011, 18:31   #48
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Originally Posted by capnorv View Post
I'm a total advocate for others to purchase boats with really deep short loosely attached keels and fragile rudders. They'll keep SAR busy and leave the waterways boatfree. Seriously, I've hard grounded a couple of times (even solid rock at 4.5 kt) with a lead keel , a little fairing in the yard was all that was neccesary, not the end of the world. More to the point would be which is more important to you, speed and performance or comfort? I mean we're talking sailboats here, right?
actually i was thinking more about safety...
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Old 19-05-2011, 18:58   #49
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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Originally Posted by bdurham View Post
so these boat may have integral keels, but would you be concerned at all with the free hanging rudders on the cal for a long distance trip?
hell no ; -)

Lapworth blew the industry standards away with his fin keel spade rudder boats that have gone everywhere and done everything... from 24' to 49', and the number of his hulls still in the water and still cruising after all these years is big... Can't pick up a boat mag in most corners of the world with out at least one of his beauties listed in the classifieds... usually updated to modern standards and active.

His boats are about as bullet proof at these old plastic classics get...
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Old 19-05-2011, 19:05   #50
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pirate Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

Truth be told I reckon most spade rudder failures are down to folks not checking their gear on a regular basis... when your hauled out for your anti foul or winter layup... drop it and check it... its not a big job..
For many its 'Out of sight out of mind'...
Corribee's have lost their rudders for that reason... early Hurley's the same... or sunk when the tube corroded out...
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Old 19-05-2011, 19:19   #51
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Originally Posted by sarafina
hell no ; -)

Lapworth blew the industry standards away with his fin keel spade rudder boats that have gone everywhere and done everything... from 24' to 49', and the number of his hulls still in the water and still cruising after all these years is big... Can't pick up a boat mag in most corners of the world with out at least one of his beauties listed in the classifieds... usually updated to modern standards and active.

His boats are about as bullet proof at these old plastic classics get...
EXACTLY!
I think the argument of losing your rudder is just like the argument that full keel boats all sail like they are dragging an anchor. The differences are slight at best.
Yes, in general fin keel boats may be 5% faster than a heavier, full keel boat. And a full keel boat may have a 5% better comfort factor and be only slightly less likely to lose a rudder on an underwater object because that rarely happens.
Bottom line, similar boats have similar sea qualities. Cal 40s are more like classic boats, despite their undercarriage, with small sterns, balanced beam, and bulletproof construction.

If you want to know the 2 most endearing qualities of my full keel boat, despite how trivial it will sound: I never snag crab pot lines so don't even have to look for them while sailing locally, and when the wind shifts in an anchorage my nylon rode never comes up and gets stuck between my keel and rudder, like used to happen in prior fin keel boats I have cruised on.

Otherwise, the sunsets all look the same!
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Old 19-05-2011, 19:26   #52
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Otherwise, the sunsets all look the same!
Yep. And I hope there will always be a few boats with full keels and wooden masts in mine. I love gazing at you folk in a cove, once the light dims a bit.
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Old 19-05-2011, 19:41   #53
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

There are just too many variables to boat ownership, comfort and safety to get all snarky about something like a keel and rudder. The biggest problem in the sailing domain is making your mind up on which one to buy - there are so many that are good!
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Old 19-05-2011, 23:36   #54
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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hell no ; -)

Lapworth blew the industry standards away with his fin keel spade rudder boats that have gone everywhere and done everything... from 24' to 49', and the number of his hulls still in the water and still cruising after all these years is big... Can't pick up a boat mag in most corners of the world with out at least one of his beauties listed in the classifieds... usually updated to modern standards and active.

His boats are about as bullet proof at these old plastic classics get...
thats good to hear, i have found quite a few of the older models of the cal 34 that i really like. many of them at really good prices. from what i have read they seem like really good boats.
i really like the interior layout as well, with the galley along the starboard side.
have a look here and tell me what you think...
1969 Cal 34 sailboat for sale in Outside United States
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Old 20-05-2011, 00:52   #55
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Everything is theoretical till your out on the water then lets be honest... its more about the man behind the wheel or at the tiller than figures on a spreadsheet...
At least thats what I've found.. argue about it all you want...
But this is the internet where theory from armchairs rule.
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Old 20-05-2011, 00:57   #56
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

Just to make things interesting... why not go for a cat - there is no keel at all - problem solved
A well balanced boat is a well balanced boat, so course wise, it will hold its own and its more up to the man at the helm to know how to balance his sails.
Safety is not just hitting the ground, its the speed you can make to avoid any bad wether, its the condition of the boat (the newer boats usually have fin keels), its how well rested the crew is after 5 days in to a voyage.
No rules, find some boat that will make you smile when sitting in the cockpit, your gonna be sitting there most of the time going around your anchor with the shifting wind reading a book or sipping a beer.
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Old 20-05-2011, 01:01   #57
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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Originally Posted by DannySt View Post
Just to make things interesting... why not go for a cat - there is no keel at all - problem solved
A well balanced boat is a well balanced boat, so course wise, it will hold its own and its more up to the man at the helm to know how to balance his sails.
Safety is not just hitting the ground, its the speed you can make to avoid any bad wether, its the condition of the boat (the newer boats usually have fin keels), its how well rested the crew is after 5 days in to a voyage.
No rules, find some boat that will make you smile when sitting in the cockpit, your gonna be sitting there most of the time going around your anchor with the shifting wind reading a book or sipping a bear.
Trying to figure out if I want to try sipping bears or not. Sounds exciting and dangerous.

John
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Old 21-05-2011, 12:38   #58
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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looking for some opinions on different keel types..

we are looking to do some long distance cruising. trans pacific, east to west. i know that a full keel boat offers stability and protection for the rudder.

is it crazy to do offshore cruising in a boat with a fin keel and no rudder protection..?

it would be great to hear some opinons on this topic.
No, it's not crazy, it's fun. Like someone below said, it's the whole package not just keel shape. We just sold our fin keeler after 10k miles in the pacific and we didn't sell because of it's keel shape, she just didn't carry enough water and lacked enough storage space. We bought a full keeler for our next boat. Not all full keelers are created equal and I suspect this new boat will sail just as well as our old one if not better.
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Old 21-05-2011, 12:41   #59
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Re: Fin Keels - Skeg Hung Rudders - Full Keels

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... she just didn't carry enough water and lacked enough storage space....
Ahhh...that displacement thang agin!
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Old 21-05-2011, 16:10   #60
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Re: fin keels, skeg hung rudders, full keels...

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Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
just don't let go of that wheel !! your boat will round up into the wind quick as a wink whilst the full keel will sail a straight line to the horizon
Depends on the fin you have. A short deep fin like a Bene, sure. A long shallow fin like an early Cal, not so much.
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