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Old 21-02-2009, 05:33   #76
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as a slight tangent, the other thing i've noticed about many of the "modern" designs is that along with the cavernous interiors, they have a complete lack of handholds in the cabin. It is rampant in the euro-styled boats. I find that downright dangerous and, in a certain way, unseaworthy.

I know this is something that can be remedied by an owner, but how often is it? And, why is such an obvious consideration not accounted for by the designer?
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Old 23-02-2009, 13:19   #77
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Wow, great thread. Learning a ton about keels, but trying to figure out where the modified fins (Valiants, PSC, etc) fit in? Also, assuming all of the described changes and improvements in the past 20 years, what are the specific boats that have benefitted from them - other than the pricey Hylas, etc., that have been listed?

Or does that bring us full circle back to the Valiants, PSC, etc?
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Old 23-02-2009, 19:21   #78
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Jeff. I appreciate the lecture on keels and their strengths and weaknesses. I don't mean "lecture" in the disparaging way, but more in the sense of having a free treatise from an expert. My keel is an odd beast. It's like an upside down shark's fin, with the taper at the front (bow) end. Other boats of the same make have the fuller keel, but I can knock them off on most points of sailing, and particularly to windward. The downside is that the keel has to be chocked well on hauling, or the boat would tip towards the bow. There is only a small footprint on the hard when the boat is level. I think this keel type has a brief run in the 1970s, but soesn't seem to have caught on. That's probably a good thing, from a haulage point of view.
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Old 24-02-2009, 08:54   #79
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Cherp:
sounds like you have an older C&C. They had classic "shark fin" keels.

Elzaar:
You can call the Valiant keels "low aspect ratio fins". They are a compromise between lift, drag, draft and the ability to have the boat sit on the keel when hauled. Maybe you could buy my book and read the technical chapter on keels.

Jeff has done a great job here with his "lecture".
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Old 24-02-2009, 10:56   #80
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Bob:
I think I already have that book on order -Yacht Design According to Perry? I thought I saw on another forum that you had a book out reviewing many of your designs. Is that the same book or do you have a new one out? I hope to give you a call or swing by your office sometime. I worked right down the street from your office for a while, but I think you moved north and I transferred assignments.

Jeff - and several of the contributers here - are extremely helpful and appreciated. Still, a lot to try to learn for those of us who have sailed almost exclusively fin keel sloops (aka: Catalinas) and are now trying to absorb all the variables to go out into the real world.

Thanks again to everyone.
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Old 24-02-2009, 12:44   #81
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Elzaar:
That is my book and it has plenty of reviews of my own designs.
I did move north. I am 10.3 miles north of the Marysville exit off I-5 on Port Sussan. You are welcome to come by any time. Just give me a ring forst to make sure I will be here.
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Old 28-05-2009, 18:56   #82
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Barging in: full or fin keel, none are made to wit stand going aground more or less, but the person who started the discussion, just wants to go sailing economically, that means: its not far. So any perches of any boat form of keel will be find.
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Old 29-05-2009, 17:58   #83
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We were exiting a narrow cove in Maine in my full keel cutter this morning, and an uncharted, submerged tree had washed in with the tide. Clunk! But we rode right up and over. Fortunately we were motoring at only 3 knots.

I'll take a full keel, thank you, although I realize that from a theoretical point of view, fin keels have significant adantages.
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Old 29-05-2009, 19:11   #84
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You were in luck thats all, but remember to give the lat & long of the channel and reported to your local mariner report information desk, so all the mariners in that vicinity will be aware of it.
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Old 29-05-2009, 19:25   #85
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You were in luck thats all, but remember to give the lat & long of the channel and reported to your local mariner report information desk, so all the mariners in that vicinity will be aware of it.

It was reported to the harbormaster and to everyone in range via VHF channel 16.

I believe they dragged for it and towed it away sometime this afternoon.
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Old 29-05-2009, 19:44   #86
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We were exiting a narrow cove in Maine in my full keel cutter this morning, and an uncharted, submerged tree had washed in with the tide. Clunk! But we rode right up and over. Fortunately we were motoring at only 3 knots.

I'll take a full keel, thank you, although I realize that from a theoretical point of view, fin keels have significant adantages.
Last weekend we hit a submerged three-foot diameter log at six knots--twice, sort of. First with the FIN keel, and second with the skeg. Scared the ever living crap out of us. Didn't know what we hit until the monster surfaced like a slow motion whale many yards behind us.

No damage, of course. Got a stout boat, FIN keel and all.

Am very glad the skeg encases the prop. Had that puppy gone for an unprotected prop, I'm sure the shaft would have bent like a noodle, not to mention what would have happened to the prop blades.

Very bad to generalize gentlemen. Not all fin keels are race like. There are fin keels, and then there are fin keels.

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Wow, great thread. Learning a ton about keels, but trying to figure out where the modified fins (Valiants, PSC, etc) fit in? . . . .

Or does that bring us full circle back to the Valiants, PSC, etc?
For cruising where's there crap in the water, yep.
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Old 30-05-2009, 16:54   #87
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Yea, I'm sure many fin keelers like yours would handle a submerged log just fine. Others wouldn't.
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Old 31-05-2009, 06:30   #88
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before i was unsure , now i,m sure i,m not sure.

Regards Jim
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Old 13-03-2012, 12:22   #89
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Re: Fin Keel? Long Keel? Jeff?

Good reading here. Michael..
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Old 13-03-2012, 12:28   #90
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Re: Fin Keel? Long Keel? Jeff?

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Yea, I'm sure many fin keelers like yours would handle a submerged log just fine. Others wouldn't.
I doubt most fin keels would have survived that 3' diameter log. My boat is steel and the prop is encased in the skeg. Most fin keelers don't have the strength or the protected prop. The prop shaft is the weak link, IMO, because it's usually unprotected.
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