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Old 28-01-2016, 10:06   #16
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

I've been following "BW" boats for sale for the last five years or so. I recently bought a boat, a Goldenwave 42 (Bob Perry design), a make I had not previously even heard of. Not many of them for sale it seems. I found out that their reputation is very good with happy owners on the east and west coasts. I got it in Seattle. It was not my first choice but I found that I didn't have many choices and that prices were high for the type of boat I was looking for.

My observation is that "good" BW boats sell very quickly on the west coast. I have seen some that lasted all of 1-2 weeks after first being advertised. I think there is a pent-up demand by knowledgeable buyers who recognize a capable in reasonable condition and grab it - because it won't last long. You don't have the luxury of diddling and thinking about one once it is advertised.

I got serious two years ago after seeing boat after boat get sold out from under me. "Sorry it sold two days ago"...... Other boats not in good condition, or are boats with less than full BW reputation. They may be quite good for BW but their reputation is not on the same level. That includes the Benneteaus/Jeauneaus/Hunters/Catalinas. However, good mid-range Catalinas sell very fast, but not for BW. They are viewed as very capable coastal cruisers around the PNW at least.

I have two friends we cruised with extensively in Mexico and in the South Pacific who sold their previous boat in Australia a few years ago who have decided to get a BW center-cockpit cutter but have had great difficulty finding one. There are many down in Mexico but most of those will require some significant work to get ready, either cosmetically or systems wise. My friends are trying to buy one in Mexico right now but it has not even been advertised yet so they are acting quickly. It is in sterling condition and is an older boat.

Regarding older boats, there are some which have deteriorated to the point of having to be scrapped, or are sitting in boatyards and can't sell. But I don't see a dramatic decrease in the numbers of them that are out and about and being maintained. Ours is a 1981 vintage. The previous owner spent a lot of money and I am continuing that but it will be a very capable boat, with excellent speed and stability, with no worries that it will fall apart on me offshore. I do worry about the new designs with spade rudders and fin keels. That doesn't deter many who prefer that design. And I wouldn't say anything negative about them. You can find them on the market right now.

I see that the newer, bigger B's/J's are selling well, some particularly for BW. But I have a very knowledgeable, well off, friend who bought a 45' Bene about three years ago who planned specifically to go cruising. He decided after sailing it around here (a lot) that he would prefer a more traditional design, like an IP, PS, etc. That is just him and doesn't represent anything other than that. There are many of those boats out and about right now with happy owners who would buy them again if they wanted a new boat.

I am not trying to say that I think one is better than the other. But the market for the older, highly rated BW boats is tight on this coast. Bargins can occasionally be found, if you are lucky. And fixer uppers are available. But ones ready to go are scarce. I could be wrong about all this as I have not done a scientific survey but I think it is accurate in my experience.

Good luck in finding your boat. Mexico is a fertile ground to find boats if you are willing to accept the issues of getting one there. The actual process of buying one is not very hard really. It's the long distances for most people and getting the boats back to where you want them. I may be crewing on one boat soon to do the Bash north, if my friends are lucky.
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Old 28-01-2016, 10:20   #17
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

I always find the definition of a "true cruising boat" to be an interesting topic, I suppose like anchors, there are strong views that are hard to change. We own a Beneteau 46, have put 15,000 miles on it the last 7 years, including a salty Dawg rally in 2012 and cruise in the VI, Bahamas and back to Florida (where we trucked it back to Wisconsin.. Not sure why :-). We mainly sail and race it in short handed long distance races, on Lake Michigan. We replaced one of the water tanks with a second fuel tank, so with some jerry jugs we carry 140 gallons of diesel, and can motor over 900NM at 6.7 knts (1gal/hr burn). The boat has no leaks, the bilge is bone dry even after rough crossings. We have high quality laminate sails, and get very good crossing speeds with the boat. 8 days 4 hours in the 2012 Salty Dawg from Hampton Vi to the BVI for example, which was 6 hours faster than the Swan 51 we left Hampton with.
When you look at who does these rallies, there are many Beneteau's and Jeanneaus. They are not sinking if you follow the events. Most incidents are as much a reflection of the conditions and the sailors skills/judgement as they are a reflection on the boat in my view. You see people get in trouble on all boat types. Once you get there, typically faster than some of the classic blue water boats, you have lots of room, storage space and comfort. I was skeptical of the quality of the mass produced boats until I had one, but the Beneteau's deck gelcoat is not cracking like my J42 deck did, and it is a drier and more comfortable boat both from wave action and leaks, even through the J's had a "higher quality" reputation. We did a Carib 1500 rally in the J in 2002, so I had a chance to compare each boat in the open ocean and for a couple month cruise with my family. I, personally, like the larger cockpit, storage, and handling of the Beneteau over the other boats we have owned over the last 30 years.

I would keep an open mind when looking at boats, as they all have trade offs, but people do cross oceans in many designs.

Here is a excerpt from a sailing magazine story on this:
"We weren’t surprised to find that mass production boats, once looked down upon by “serious” voyagers, now make up the bulk of the rally fleets. No longer, it seems, does the aspiring bluewater cruiser seek out slow, heavy-displacement boats with tiny cockpits and conservative rigs. As the mass-market builders produced ever-bigger models over the last 20 years, and evolving technology improved their engineering and durability, so owners began using these boats for ever-longer passages.
What’s Popular? > Most popular brands in the ARC, 2008-2012 (in order):
Beneteau, Jeanneau, Swan, Oyster, Bavaria,
Hallberg-Rassy, Lagoon, Hanse, X-Yachts
> Most popular brands in the Caribbean 1500, 2008-2012:
Jeanneau, Hallberg-Rassy, Hylas, Tayana, Beneteau,
Island Packet, J/Boats, Amel, Lagoon, Catalina
"

The full story is here:
Twelve Top Bluewater Cruising Boats - Sail Magazine

Good luck in your search!
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Old 28-01-2016, 11:06   #18
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Seattle and Victoria/Vancouver are pretty good places to look for a Blue Water boat, I know of a Perry designed Nordic 44 in Seattle, have see Passport, Valiant and some of the other "performance cruisers" in that area. Custom Yacht Sales in Sidney BC, also will source one for you. Have been Tayanas around if you want the heavier boat, and Seattle recently had a Catalina/Morgan which is also a good bluewater option.
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Old 28-01-2016, 11:46   #19
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
I've been following "BW" boats for sale for the last five years or so. I recently bought a boat, a Goldenwave 42 (Bob Perry design), a make I had not previously even heard of. Not many of them for sale it seems. I found out that their reputation is very good with happy owners on the east and west coasts. I got it in Seattle. It was not my first choice but I found that I didn't have many choices and that prices were high for the type of boat I was looking for.

My observation is that "good" BW boats sell very quickly on the west coast. I have seen some that lasted all of 1-2 weeks after first being advertised. I think there is a pent-up demand by knowledgeable buyers who recognize a capable in reasonable condition and grab it - because it won't last long. You don't have the luxury of diddling and thinking about one once it is advertised.

I got serious two years ago after seeing boat after boat get sold out from under me. "Sorry it sold two days ago"...... Other boats not in good condition, or are boats with less than full BW reputation. They may be quite good for BW but their reputation is not on the same level. That includes the Benneteaus/Jeauneaus/Hunters/Catalinas. However, good mid-range Catalinas sell very fast, but not for BW. They are viewed as very capable coastal cruisers around the PNW at least.

I have two friends we cruised with extensively in Mexico and in the South Pacific who sold their previous boat in Australia a few years ago who have decided to get a BW center-cockpit cutter but have had great difficulty finding one. There are many down in Mexico but most of those will require some significant work to get ready, either cosmetically or systems wise. My friends are trying to buy one in Mexico right now but it has not even been advertised yet so they are acting quickly. It is in sterling condition and is an older boat.

Regarding older boats, there are some which have deteriorated to the point of having to be scrapped, or are sitting in boatyards and can't sell. But I don't see a dramatic decrease in the numbers of them that are out and about and being maintained. Ours is a 1981 vintage. The previous owner spent a lot of money and I am continuing that but it will be a very capable boat, with excellent speed and stability, with no worries that it will fall apart on me offshore. I do worry about the new designs with spade rudders and fin keels. That doesn't deter many who prefer that design. And I wouldn't say anything negative about them. You can find them on the market right now.

I see that the newer, bigger B's/J's are selling well, some particularly for BW. But I have a very knowledgeable, well off, friend who bought a 45' Bene about three years ago who planned specifically to go cruising. He decided after sailing it around here (a lot) that he would prefer a more traditional design, like an IP, PS, etc. That is just him and doesn't represent anything other than that. There are many of those boats out and about right now with happy owners who would buy them again if they wanted a new boat.

I am not trying to say that I think one is better than the other. But the market for the older, highly rated BW boats is tight on this coast. Bargins can occasionally be found, if you are lucky. And fixer uppers are available. But ones ready to go are scarce. I could be wrong about all this as I have not done a scientific survey but I think it is accurate in my experience.

Good luck in finding your boat. Mexico is a fertile ground to find boats if you are willing to accept the issues of getting one there. The actual process of buying one is not very hard really. It's the long distances for most people and getting the boats back to where you want them. I may be crewing on one boat soon to do the Bash north, if my friends are lucky.
Good post. I was in this market recently, too. One has to be ready to act immediately, if not sooner. There were two buyers right behind me hoping my purchase would fall through. The boat was bought by me before it was ever advertised.
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Old 28-01-2016, 12:46   #20
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Buying a boat in a distant port

Regarding buying a boat in a distant port, this may sound like a great adventure, and that it certainly can be--I've done it for myself and for clients. Unless one is independently wealthy and has loads of free time to travel and be away, restrict your shopping radius to at the very least the same coast, where delivery can easily be made on the yacht's own bottom. And better to restrict shopping area to one's own country, as well.

Virtually every boat needs work from engine, rigging and hull survey recommendations; these are usually done while the boat is still at haulout for survey. There will almost certainly be additional work the buyer wants done prior to departing on any major delivery voyage. All this can be much more difficult and costly if the buyer has to fly in to begin searching for the right vendors and tradesmen for these tasks, and to see that everything is done correctly.

Use your heads.
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Old 28-01-2016, 14:19   #21
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Lots of BW Boats in Portland, but you have to move fast on the good deals.
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Old 28-01-2016, 15:55   #22
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

i looked for two years to find my boat ,, we had just got back from carribean side of panama looking at a 36 foot prout cat i could not afford.
sitting on the aft deck of my friends 32 foot catalac cat drinking a cold beer .. one of the guys said you know there is a 42 solaris here anchored for sale .. how can i get hold of the seller? believe it or not a dingy was headed out into the bay my friend said hey there goes the guy to his boat now .. we got his attention he came and got us ,, we spent a couple of hours going over her ,, i was up half the night doing research on SOLARIS 42 was every thing i wanted in a boat i could live on ,, next day we scraped the bottom , looked her over and took her out for the day ..
we dickered a day or two i bought her ... due to a recent stress related heart attack and some bad financial turns she is for sale here on this forum .. look her over make an offer .. most of my inquiries come from west coast and Mediterranean where this is one of the most popular cat there .. so lots more cats east side than west for sure
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Old 28-01-2016, 17:23   #23
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
I was once at an auction of Swan 47 where one of the bidders was a Greek skipper living in the Caribbean. He was scoffing at the bids' progression muttering that in Caribbean he could have gotten such a boat for a fraction of the eventual highest bid. He explained that on the islands there are plenty of blue water boats (many not in a Bristol shape to be sure) for a fraction of their worth due to owners cruising or circumnavigation dreams going awry for a bunch of reasons. Same goes for Hawaii.
I've read the same goes for Panama.

Paul
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:08   #24
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Hello jimp: Five years ago I found my PSC (Crealock)'34 in Oriental NC. I got a good deal on her, and then spent every dime I saved there in trucking her to the West coast. Since then, I've seen some fine boats for sale in San Carlos, Mazatlan and La Paz in Mexico. There's one brokerage that handles all three. Check out lapazyachts.com. And then when you don't find the perfect bluewater cruiser ready to sail to Mexico and beyond, check back with me: S/v Victoria may be for sale by then... John
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:37   #25
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

There are many on the Great Lakes. And your $20k shipping will be offset by the lack of salt-related repair.
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Old 11-02-2016, 19:24   #26
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

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Originally Posted by bailey49 View Post
Seattle and Victoria/Vancouver are pretty good places to look for a Blue Water boat, I know of a Perry designed Nordic 44 in Seattle, have see Passport, Valiant and some of the other "performance cruisers" in that area. Custom Yacht Sales in Sidney BC, also will source one for you. Have been Tayanas around if you want the heavier boat, and Seattle recently had a Catalina/Morgan which is also a good bluewater option.
+1

Lots of nice boats in the PNW.
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Old 12-02-2016, 18:49   #27
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

I think they are here on the west coast, just not for sale! Maybe if you use that searchtempest thing for craigslist and you are able to fly or drive quickly to a prospective boat between BC and San Diego, and you have a little patience, you might be able to move on a good one. What, more specifically, are you looking for, and where do you want to keep it?
My boat, probably not what most will call a BW, still, was sold "out from under me." Fortunately I told the previous owner that if the new owner somehow decided to sell the boat to let me know. A month later he called me and sure enough the new owner had buyer's remorse, and I jumped in and got it, so you never know...
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Old 12-02-2016, 19:28   #28
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Re: Fewer used BW cruising boats on the west coast?

Tayana Sailboat Here is one that looks like a reasonably priced "Bluewater" boat.
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