ferro cement ? need advice

[Steve Bean]

Steve,
My C Mist 32 is the cutter rig. I am in the process of some extensive repairs to the wood components, which have suffered rot due to neglect under my ownership. I have also repaired a few small spots in the hull where rust appeared. I dug into them with a small air hammer ( very useful) until the rust was gone, then replaced rusted mesh and filled with epoxy mortar as described by Colin Brookes in his book, Ferro Cement Boats. I recommend this book. PM me and I'll send pictures. Steve

[steve ripples]

hpeer, thanks for that link - a very interesting story, hadn't come across it before.

[steve ripples]

Steve: 'I have also repaired a few small spots in the hull where rust appeared.'

Doesn't sound to me like the story of a boat constantly on the edge of falling to bits. Thanks for the reassurance. I'll have to get the Brookes book, the new edition and get the benefit of all his years' experience.

[TonyQld100]

Hi .I'm about to set off in my 36ft Sampson Ferro , Mooloolaba to Caboolture river, short trip, first time out with this boat.
Can anyone give me a clue as to what sort of speed [approx] I could expect to get ,I have no idea of weight,but would think around the 9ton mark?
I understand tides ,weather,etc are a major factor but have no idea if she will do 4 knots or 8 knots,just trying to get an idea so I can arrive at destination around right tide height.
Motor is 29hp volvo penta ,she is a double ender,and I have just had the hull cleaned off by a diver so should not be too bad in that area.Probably on motor all the way.

[Weyalan]

Originally Posted by TonyQld100

Hi .I'm about to set off in my 36ft Sampson Ferro , Mooloolaba to Caboolture river, short trip, first time out with this boat.
Can anyone give me a clue as to what sort of speed [approx] I could expect to get ,I have no idea of weight,but would think around the 9ton mark?
I understand tides ,weather,etc are a major factor but have no idea if she will do 4 knots or 8 knots,just trying to get an idea so I can arrive at destination around right tide height.
Motor is 29hp volvo penta ,she is a double ender,and I have just had the hull cleaned off by a diver so should not be too bad in that area.Probably on motor all the way.

With a 36' length overall, your waterline length is probably not more than about 29', possibly less. This would indicate that your max hull speed is going to be in the order of 7 knots. Realistically, though, you will most likely manage a fair bit less than that. 29 hp is not a whole lot of horsepower for a 9 ton boat. Your speed will also be knocked around by headwinds or choppy sea conditions.
If you hope to get 5 knots and expect to maintain 4 knots you are probably going to be in the paddock.
My advice... don't leave Mooloolaba if it is forecast to blow more than 15 knots on your maiden voyage (although I did, but that's another story).

[Steve Bean]

I would suggest a sea trial or two before setting off on the trip. Fire it up and motor around a bit, upwind, downwind. Measure your speed at various engine rpm. If you don't have a working knot meter, throw a chip of wood into the water at the bow and use a stopwatch to find out how long it takes to go 36 feet; convert to nautical miles per hour. I don't think anyone can give you a very good estimate of your speed without more information about the waterline length, engine, propeller, etc.

[TonyQld100]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

I would suggest a sea trial or two before setting off on the trip. Fire it up and motor around a bit, upwind, downwind. Measure your speed at various engine rpm. If you don't have a working knot meter, throw a chip of wood into the water at the bow and use a stopwatch to find out how long it takes to go 36 feet; convert to nautical miles per hour. I don't think anyone can give you a very good estimate of your speed without more information about the waterline length, engine, propeller, etc.

Ok thankyou for that

[TonyQld100]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

With a 36' length overall, your waterline length is probably not more than about 29', possibly less. This would indicate that your max hull speed is going to be in the order of 7 knots. Realistically, though, you will most likely manage a fair bit less than that. 29 hp is not a whole lot of horsepower for a 9 ton boat. Your speed will also be knocked around by headwinds or choppy sea conditions.
If you hope to get 5 knots and expect to maintain 4 knots you are probably going to be in the paddock.
My advice... don't leave Mooloolaba if it is forecast to blow more than 15 knots on your maiden voyage (although I did, but that's another story).

Thanks for that, very helpful info, yes had thought to allow around 4-5 knots ,and certainly pick a day when it's not blowing too hard ..
would like to hear your other story though.

[Weyalan]

I purchased a boat (my first) in Moololaba about 8 years ago... a mid 80's IOR 1-tonner... 40' of fairly tired racing boat. I put together a crew of half a dozen to deliver, most with little or no boating experience. We spent a week or so prepping the boat before putting to sea for a delivery to Hobart... first of all we were intercepted by a large police boat with lots of burly gents aiming guns at us... there had, apparently, been a break out at a nearby prison the night before we left, and my motley crew and I were recognised at the fuel jetty as not being the regular crew of that boat, so the guy phoned the cops.... interesting experience.

The forecast was for 15-20, possibly 25 at times. It blew 20 all day, so at dusk we downsized from full rags to 1 reef and a #2 headsail. The breeze immediately freshened to 30-35, 40 at times. In the dark I didn't really feel we had the skills / experience to send guys to the foredeck to change sails, so we ran all night, hand steering, over-canvassed and pretty much surfing all night long (I steered most of it, as my first ever experience of steering with a tiller). In the morning we downsized sails (it was still blowing 30) and headed back in toward Australia! We made Coffs Harbour early that evening, having covered about 280 nautical miles in less than 36 hours

[JPA Cate]

Pat, that sounds a mite hairy! Gog on the 7.7 average.

Ann

[Steve Bean]

Thanks, Weyalan, for the account. It confirms something I read recently about wind forecasts; if it's given as a range, say 15 to 25 kts, just ADD the two figures, and call it 40. That's just what you experienced. This is my policy from now on. I can always deal with LESS wind than I expect...
I like your reply to TonyQld100. More informative than mine.

[Weyalan]

Frankly, Ann, it was scary. I was an extremely inexperienced skipper and a very inexperienced helmsman. Having so much sail up was a rookie mistake and it was more through good luck than good management that we survived that night without incident. It was the hardest steering I have ever done and we really should have reduced sail significantly, but since I pretty much had to steer, I didn't want to send untried crew to the mast and foredeck in the dark with that amount of breeze and reasonably large seas (seas always seem larger in the dark, no?).

[Boracay]

Tony

I'll go with the others who suggested that you should get 4-5knots. In practice, under good conditions, maybe a little more. Do use a GPS and a trial run to get a much more accurate idea of power setting, fuel consumption and expected speed.

What I would suggest is to get a copy of the "Beacon to Beacon" book. It shows the recommended routes through Morton Bay - helps in keeping away from big ships and off the sandbars. It also gives distances between waypoints.

Bitter experience has taught me that you need to have a plan on how to stay well away from all commercial traffic. While there are some real gentlemen who understand the difficulties of managing a small boat there are others on the other end of the bell shaped curve.

When we came through Morton Bay I put the Beacon to Beacon tracks into our plotter and set the autopilot to follow the tracks. Worked out pretty well.

If you can get hold of a copy of Lucas' Guide it has some pretty good tips for most places. We followed them all the way up from Sydney and they worked out pretty well.

I had a look at Google Earth and have saved a sreenshot - see photo. My experience has been that it is essential to arrive at any river on a rising tide. Lucas may have some recommendations here.

Google earth gave me a distance of 40 nm from the mouth of the Mooloolaba Rive to the entrance of the Cabolture River so I'd plan for 10 hours for that plus an hour or so of mucking about either end. It looks doable in daylight but there's not a huge safety margin.

The other essential is to check your weather forecasts carefully for at least a few days before you leave. I'd echo those sentiments about not going with any forecast above 15 knots.

Do check your fuel carefully (both for quality and quantity) and have a couple of spare filters ready (a new one to start the trip may be a good idea) and know how to bleed your injectors.

[bobconnie]

Connie and I have in the past, been asked to deliver 5 Ferro boats up and down the west coast, or to offshore ports. Of the 5 only 2 were boats we would sail on ! Those two were custom bilt by shipyards. 1 was bilt for the qwner of portland cement in BC Canada. The other by a company in the bay area fo Cali, we boat can't remember the Co. name. Both were fine boats, great sailers, dry, and solid in big wind conditions. One we deliverd from Cabo to Miami FL. The other from San Fran to Hawyee, both trips were easy as the boats were well equiped and very sea worthy. The other boats we looked at were all home bilt and with just a good eye, anyone would not use them for anything but a condo maybe ! Just mt 2 cents

[TonyQld100]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

I purchased a boat (my first) in Moololaba about 8 years ago... a mid 80's IOR 1-tonner... 40' of fairly tired racing boat. I put together a crew of half a dozen to deliver, most with little or no boating experience. We spent a week or so prepping the boat before putting to sea for a delivery to Hobart... first of all we were intercepted by a large police boat with lots of burly gents aiming guns at us... there had, apparently, been a break out at a nearby prison the night before we left, and my motley crew and I were recognised at the fuel jetty as not being the regular crew of that boat, so the guy phoned the cops.... interesting experience.

The forecast was for 15-20, possibly 25 at times. It blew 20 all day, so at dusk we downsized from full rags to 1 reef and a #2 headsail. The breeze immediately freshened to 30-35, 40 at times. In the dark I didn't really feel we had the skills / experience to send guys to the foredeck to change sails, so we ran all night, hand steering, over-canvassed and pretty much surfing all night long (I steered most of it, as my first ever experience of steering with a tiller). In the morning we downsized sails (it was still blowing 30) and headed back in toward Australia! We made Coffs Harbour early that evening, having covered about 280 nautical miles in less than 36 hours

What a start to your trip,I'll bet nobody slept that night.
You say this was your first boat ,was this also your first major ocean sail?