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Old 13-08-2012, 06:16   #826
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I think the hull repair can be carried out fairly easily. Break away as advised to an area slightly bigger than the visible problem, cutaway any damaged or heavily rusted mesh and reo. Make sure you have about 100mm of good exposed mesh & reo to work with and keep heat localised when welding new rod in with wet rag etc, weld with mig to keep heat local. Sandblast welds and clean and coat with ironising primer like ferronite. Tie in new mesh, there will be a few layers of this. Then there is an epoxy ferro mix available used for industrial tanks etc available, use this as it sets rock hard and is easy to use you can hit it with a hammer and it just chips after a week. I have done this on a Hartley rorc I had. I don't care what the book says don't use car bog especially below the waterline , epoxy with microfibres for filling gouges and with balloons for fairing. When you do the major repair with ferro epoxy trowel it in in from both sides with good pressure to get rid of voids and air bubbles. With bilges if possible two pack epoxy paint these areas to save future problems like liming and leaching and voila the job is done. Not a lot of expense just quality time.
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Old 13-08-2012, 08:21   #827
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

Curious about the debate between chicken wire and welded square mesh. Cost aside, why one vs the other? Does it really matter?
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Old 13-08-2012, 13:58   #828
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
Hi Bill, that suprises me, when i built my RORC 39 begining in 1971 i of course was deep into the "scene" and never heard of any Hartley ever being built with welded square mesh,i agree that the mesh, regardless of type would be one of the biggest costs in building a FC hull, although i would think that the plastering on mine would have been the biggest single expense due to the fact that i, like most of the builders i knew, used pre mixed plaster mix rather than starting with the raw ingredients as well as hiring Ev Sayers team to come down from Whangarei on 3 seperate occasions to do the plastering while me and a few other builder friends did the laboring of mixing and delivering up to the plasterers, well worth the money imho as as long as you have done a good job of fairing the armature you end up with a nice fair, light hull. I am not aware of any designer who moved from welded to twisted mesh. Welded mesh was more expensive when i built my boat. I dont know where mr Brookes buys his EPOXY auto body filler, maybe such a thing exists in NZ but certainly not in the US, car body work requires the quick curing time of polyester, you would never get the job done if you had to wait around for epoxy to cure.
Woolacott is a very well known name in kiwi boating,all heavy displacement designs that would probably have lent themselves well for conversion to FC. There were quite a few Herreschoff designs built in FC even though he never designed for the medium. When i was building a my boat there was a Herreschoff 58ft Bounty being built in Auckland that was an absolutly first class job,beautiful, i dont know who worked out the FC scantlings,probably the builders.

Steve.
G'day Steve,

I have built a couple of boats in Ply/Epoxy (Bote-Cote) but never in FC and as I have never been down to NZ I don't have a clue on the auto bog they use But...They do have a few nice FC boats. I have my eye on one Herreschoff 36ft Neria Ketch, one Herroshoff Motor sailor that the owner says has reached 9.5 knots under sail, she's a real nice boat, a few 38' Hartley South Seas, a couple of Hartley RORC 39's, one 39' Hartley Launch, and one Woolacott sloop but she's a 50' sloop, all are FC but it's the devils own job making-up my mind on weather to go with a sail-boat or a straight-out power job...I'm getting to be a wee bit long in the tooth now (I'm not a kick in the pants of 70) and the last thing I need is a boat I can not safely handle at sea on my own, so deciding on sail or power is a hassle. I do believe the Woolacott at 50' is too much boat for me and that's a pitty cause it's a real nice boat and I believe the price was right But then all the boats I have on my watch list are good looking boats, to me at any rate The 33' Herroshoff Motor Sailor keeps drawing me back to it Steve, it truely is a fine looking yacht so who knows what I'll end-up with...When I make my decision.
Oh well Steve, as me dear old Gran would say, never run after a bus or a boat...There's always another one comming behind

Back in the late 60's I had a few mates, American, Canadian, Aussies and Kiwis, we were all together in Greece, they were all well into the FC boat scene, last time I saw them, all but one Canadian had ordered the plans to build their FC boats, the Canadian decided he would design and build his own...I never did find-out what he did or didn't do about his FC yacht, I moved on to the Persian Gulf and never saw him again.

Cheers Steve,

Bill
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Old 13-08-2012, 14:18   #829
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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Originally Posted by Yachts66 View Post
Curious about the debate between chicken wire and welded square mesh. Cost aside, why one vs the other? Does it really matter?
G'day Thomas,

Colin Brookes states in the book, (page 59) Quote: An important feature of Twisted Wire Netting is that it can be sculptured. It can be shrunk and shaped to almost any contour...but it can not be stretched. End Quote.
There's more on the subject as you'll see when you receive your book.
So I guess it does matters Thomas.

Bill
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Old 13-08-2012, 20:19   #830
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

I have seen small stainless steel mesh used witch gives a good finish on the when plastering and litre chance of corrosion if there is any moisture ingress which obviously limits implosion problems. Mitch
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Old 13-08-2012, 21:37   #831
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

In the presence of moisture without oxygen stainless suffers from crevice corrosion - when exposed to the air it doesn't corrode.
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Old 13-08-2012, 22:06   #832
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

I agree, stainless mesh would be much more expensive, and I'm not sure what you would gain. I haven't read the books yet, but I do have a great deal of experience on steel boats where if it doesn't move we paint it with Ameron 235 which renders a pretty rust free boat, at least for a while. I'll be curious to see if there are any comments regarding painting the metal structure with a good epoxy paint prior to the application of the mud..

My ferro books have arrived in the states, and I can't wait to give them a read, but I have to, since I won't be back there for another 6 weeks or so.
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Old 14-08-2012, 01:18   #833
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachts66 View Post
I agree, stainless mesh would be much more expensive, and I'm not sure what you would gain. I haven't read the books yet, but I do have a great deal of experience on steel boats where if it doesn't move we paint it with Ameron 235 which renders a pretty rust free boat, at least for a while.
Sound to me like your X army/navy Thomas, same as I am
Quote:
I'll be curious to see if there are any comments regarding painting the metal structure with a good epoxy paint prior to the application of the mud..
I can find nothing in the book or on the site for pre-treating the wire armature with paint or anything else, it's mud to armature and that's it...Nothing fancy.
Quote:
My ferro books have arrived in the states, and I can't wait to give them a read, but I have to, since I won't be back there for another 6 weeks or so.
I believe you will enjoy the Hartley book Thomas, it's chocker-block full of helpful info'
You can read what Colin Brookes has to say on mesh and wire at this link
The bloke seeking advice on that link is getting confused over conflicting advice from a "modern" FC designer (I thought no-one NEW was designing NEW FC boats ) Whatever...It always amazes me why a person buys plans from an outfit that has been a leader in their game for over 40 years...Then the buyer ignore the instructions provided with the plans...Instead of sticking with the plans and provided info', they listen to Joe Blow, the expert who has been designing the same/similar product since last week
Oh well...As the people in Yorkshire, UK say...There's nowt so queer as folk.

Cheers Thomas,

Bill
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Old 14-08-2012, 02:57   #834
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

hello S V Zydico

"Then there is an epoxy ferro mix available used for industrial tanks etc available"

Could you give me a brand name of the material you refering to.

thanks
peter
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Old 14-08-2012, 05:00   #835
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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Originally Posted by Yachts66 View Post
Curious about the debate between chicken wire and welded square mesh. Cost aside, why one vs the other? Does it really matter?
No, it does not really matter as long as its all in there as designed.

Steve.
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Old 14-08-2012, 18:16   #836
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
No, it does not really matter as long as its all in there as designed.

Steve.
You got that right Steve..."it does not really matter as long as its all in there as designed".

I read in the book, Ferro-Cement Boats, page 29:
Quote.
A hull built properly with Square Welded Mesh although not as good as a netted hull is still far stronger than any other form of construction save for a sheet steel one (when new)
End Quote.
In my own case, if I were to build a FC boat, I would buy FC boat plans from a company with a proven track record in designing/building and repairing FC boats.

Bill
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Old 14-08-2012, 20:32   #837
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

Bill,when i was building my boat i had the obligatory copy of Hartleys book and i still think it was one of the best,not just on Ferro but excellent on the subjects of cabinetry,fittout etc.

Steve.
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Old 15-08-2012, 03:42   #838
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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Bill,when i was building my boat i had the obligatory copy of Hartleys book and i still think it was one of the best,not just on Ferro but excellent on the subjects of cabinetry,fittout etc.

Steve.
I hear you Steve, the book I have is the latest edition, Ferro-Cement Boats 3rd Edition and like your book, it's chocker-block full of helpful info', not just on FC boat building/repairing but also on woodwork, cabinetry and fittout

I have no plans on building another boat (I'm now to long in the tooth) but I'm keeping an eye on several FC boats. Of the two local FC boats I have my eye on, one needs work on the coachhouse, ply deck and cockpit. I believe the book will be a big help to me if I decide on that boat.
Those two "local" FC boats are around 3,000 KM North of me, that's about 1,865 miles and because of things at home I just can't get away to check them out...Oh well, I hope they'll still be for sale when I can make my move.

Cheers Steve,

Bill
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Old 24-08-2012, 11:23   #839
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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A couple of questions for all FC boat owners.
1: Why did you buy a FC boat
2: What check-ups did you do, or have done, on your FC boat "before" you bought it
3: Do you have any regrets on buying your FC boat

Thanking you all in advance for your answers

Bill
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1. At 59yo being homeless and unemployed it's unlikely I'll ever be able to afford a home. The thought occurred to me that a yacht would be a lot cheaper. But why a ferro? Simply that they're the best value for money available. For the price I could have bought an old 25' GRP yacht or a 35' ferro. No brainer really. I've never considered old timber or steel yachts, too much work to bring them back to usable condition really.
2. None before purchase. I bought it on eBay from Melbourne, the yacht was in Sydney and the vendor in Queensland. After purchase I went through Sydney and assured myself it actually existed and transferred the registration and swing mooring. I still haven't been aboard, it was pissing rain in May. Now in Ipswich but going south again soon.
3. None whatsoever.

Now stop procrastinating and get yourself a yacht before you're too old to enjoy it!

Rob
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Old 24-08-2012, 13:52   #840
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Re: Ferro Cement Hulls ?

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hello

I found a link for the oel penetration problem
Effect of Petroleum Products On Concrete - Building Materials - Concrete Construction

Its still not clear what the oel penetration is actual doing to the FC.

removing the oely cement is a serious impact. If not needed it would be better not doing it.

thanks
peter
Hi Peter,

You don't need to remove the affected area of cement if it sounds and looks solid, that suggestion is ludicrous. There are plenty of degreasing products available for removing oil stains from driveways which would work, also your earlier suggestion of steam cleaning seems pretty good.

The trouble with these guys is that they seem to think only in terms of what "experts" tell them. They also don't listen very well, judging by the fact that they're still going on about the vent grill. You're a smart guy, use your own judgement.

It's a big job but you seem to have a plan. Good luck!

Rob
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