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BillAU · 28-11-2011, 19:12

To those of you who own a Hartley South Seas, how do you think the South Seas running on a 60hp Ford diesel would perform as a motor yacht, no mast, sails or rigging, would she be economical or not?

Bill
Australia

Yachts66 · 29-11-2011, 02:27

Say AussieGeoff got a link to those articles you mentioned? I'd like to see them.

Thanks,

Thomas

Reefdog · 01-12-2011, 18:16

I came across a 56ft Samson ketch for very little money. I think this is the boat for me as I value space on the boat and can only afford a 30 to 35 ft of other makes. I am planning on sailing it to the Bahamas and Caribbean after we fix it up. But before I buy it I would like a few opinions on ….
A trusted ferro cement surveyor in South Florida?
An estimate on yearly up keep on ferro cement boats?
The sea worthy abilities of this design?
Any things to look for that should make me say no thanks to the boat?
Thanks for the help

**Ex-Calif** · 01-12-2011, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefdog

I came across a 56ft Samson ketch for very little money. I think this is the boat for me as I value space on the boat and can only afford a 30 to 35 ft of other makes. I am planning on sailing it to the Bahamas and Caribbean after we fix it up. But before I buy it I would like a few opinions on ….
A trusted ferro cement surveyor in South Florida?
An estimate on yearly up keep on ferro cement boats?
The sea worthy abilities of this design?
Any things to look for that should make me say no thanks to the boat?
Thanks for the help

My brother just bought a low priced ferro boat. 53 foot but that's with a 10 foot sprit.

- hull condition
- standing and running rigging condition
- sail condition
- engine condition
- elecrical system condition

These are the big things that can bite you. After that anything can and will break. I understand you are on a budget. Stepping up from 30-35 to over 50 has a very big impact on maintenance cost.

A battery bank that could cost 3-4000 to replace. Inverters and chargers that cost high hundreds if not thousands to replace. My brother will have about 4000 in 3 new sails shortly. Anchoring systems that are large and require a 4000+ gypsy to be working properly if the tackle is to be easily handled. The main halyard alone is a 400 dollar rope. Single handed or even two up an autopilot becomes a neccesity. A boat this size will likely have a genset or at least need one.

If the engine goes you can't even reasonably get to a dock to replenish genset fuel or water. Systems reliance becomes quite a bit higher.

I definitely do not want to discourage you. Just do your sums properly. If you can swing it, a 40+ foot boat is that much more comfortable and liveable. If you are single handed or even two up for long term cruising this boat is at the limit of operability and both crew need to be competent. Depending on the interior layout you may not need this much space.

Yachts66 · 02-12-2011, 05:40

Truth in comment time, I'm not a big fan of yacht brokers, mostly because they lie. Quite often you will see a boat advertised as a 50+ foot boat LOA, but LOA includes the bowsprit and boomkin if there is one and thus is a very deceptive number. The more accurate measure of a boat is LWL. You will be surprised at how many 50+ foot boats have LWL's in the low to mid 30's. LOD (length on Deck) is also a better measure of a boats true size, but not as good as the LWL in my opinion. Anyway, that 56' Samson might be much smaller than you're thinking. In any case, where is the listing posted? I'd like to see it! It's not on Yachtworld.

ExCal is spot on though on his comments about costs. My last boat before this one was a 65 and everything cost a heap if only because the boat required such large sizes. Still, I truly did love all that space to settle in.

I'm curious, when I look at some of the ferro boat pics on yachtworld it's not uncommon to see rust bleeding through the hull, particularly from the top of the hull in the area of the cap rail. Is this indicative of serious problems or just they way they are? Someone please do enlighten me.

Reefdog · 02-12-2011, 06:23

Thanks, good points about the larger boat being more expensive. I will defiantly need to get it surveyed if I plan to buy it and crunch the numbers. There are a few online for sale in Florida. If you Google Samson 56 for sale, it should be in the first few listing for. The pictures that I am seeing of all the ferro boats for sale look like they have sank and been brought back to life, kinda. I am hoping that they are just not photogenic but I will let you know after I go see it. Also, I am a bit concerned that it seems most of these boats were built by people who were not really specialized in building these boat. But I still figure its worth a look.

mitiempo · 02-12-2011, 08:14

If this is the boat 1983 56' Samson Motorsailer for sale in Stuart, Florida | All Boat Listings.com I don't think I would waste the money on a survey.

Cormorant · 02-12-2011, 08:54

Here's the current object of my cheapskate ferro fantasies:

1976 Samson C-Deuce Double Headstay Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

55' LOA, 45 LWL, $14,900.

What could possibly go wrong?

mitiempo · 02-12-2011, 09:04

"a few projects" - who knows what that means.

Very under powered, and apparently all winches are hydraulic meaning you have to run the engine to sheet the sails - a bit strange.

Pics look good but who knows when they were taken or what lurks behind the woodwork.

Reefdog · 02-12-2011, 10:00

The one I was looking at is 12k in Ft. Myers. Im now guessing it wont be the boat for me but i would like to see it so I donk kick myself later

mitiempo · 02-12-2011, 11:15

One indicator is if it was worth more than 12k someone would have snapped it up by now.
It could have a negative value - pretty common with low price boats needing work.

Yachts66 · 02-12-2011, 17:12

About those pesky rust stains? What do they likely mean?

Thanks,

Thomas

**Ex-Calif** · 02-12-2011, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachts66

About those pesky rust stains? What do they likely mean?

Thanks,

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I am a neophyte in terms of ferro. However now that my brother has one I am in "fast absorption" and make some common sense decisions mode.

Firstly, I have bounced and pounded my way all around the deck. Having been on GRP, Steel and Wood boats it is hard to describe what the deck feels like under foot. Ulike wood and GRP there is absolutely no give at all. It is like jumping up and down in a cement parking lot. It is "tank" like in how stiff and solid it feels. The closest neighbor to me is steel.

Which brings the "rust" issue to the forefront. Knowing that the boat is a bunch of mesh and cement it is clear to me that water intrusion and disintigrating mesh is a bad thing. I can see on a bad layup that voids in the mud would be bad. I don't know how you would really check for that and the second part is even after laying up a perfect hull, like all boats, you need to attach stuff to the hull and make penetrations for services to pass through creating potential ingress paths.

My brothers boat has staining that is "typical" of steel boats and ferro boats I have seen. The most concerning places were chain plates and rudder stocks, pintles and gudgeons. There is also surface rust on many attached items fabricated out of ferous steel - dinghy davits, windgen mast, bow roller bracket, the rear "porch" (that was fabricated from steel and bolted on).

Bottom line is that all these areas appear to be the ferous steel, and bolts and so on slowly oxidizing - she is 15 years old. My brother and I agree that part of the life on this boat is going to by going around with a wire wheel and some good marine paint on an ongoing basis. In fact when affecting the steering repairs i ended up wire wheeling a whole bunch of small areas around the back porch and when we finished dolopped (technical word) white marine paint on all the areas that were wire brushed. We also bought the magic mixture of chemical (brain fart on the name) that inhibits and kills rust.

In regards to "big issues" with the hull here is my gut. I may get flamed for this one...

- if you buy ferro be ultra cautious in a home built hull. There are probably expert home bulders and the guy who actually got one finished in contrast to all started and not finished is probably a dedicated builder, but more than likely he only built one and you never know if he did it right. Not to say that a yard cant make mistakes, just the likelihood is lower. We confrimed Ann was laid up in a professional yard experienced in ferro.
- if the boat is less than 10 years old (swag) it could have developing problem that have not surfaced yet. I would be more and more comfortable about a ferro hull between 10 and say 25 years old.
- I don't know if traditional water/moisture measuring devices work when evaluating ferro hulls. If a "high" reading were detected what would that mean and what to do about it?
- i think ultrasonic and hammer tapping might be legitimate tools to evaluate the hull as well. If a bit of the hull is hit with a hammer and it falls out, generally I think that would be a bad thing - Duh...
- There are lots of opinions on how to repair ferro. I wont give mine as I am too inexperienced yet. I do know that Ann has had "minor" wharf damage repaired - i.e. scrapes on the hull. I was told how it was repaired and it seems reasonable to me and probably the method I would recommend and choose.
- how to repair a hull penetration - i.e. a reef hitting accident or collision - is an interesting metal exercise but I see Ann with her tank like construction and slow speed as being able to win against the reef or anybody in her weight class. If it ever happens and the boat is not lost we will cross that bridge.

So long post about a simple thing - what about rust? Me? Grind it treat it and paint it continuously just like a steel boat unless it pops up in some random place in the hull not related to a fixture, penetration or something attached to the boat.