Ferro Cement Hulls?

[Boracay]

Before you pay for a survey have a close look at the problem.

I have a distant memory of Richard Hartley writing in his book that the reinforcing wire would only rust to just under the cement. Only a good ferro surveyor would know for sure.

What level of risk will you assume?

[kimberlydreamin]

Hi all have read the thread with great interest as i am heading down to Brisbane next week to look at a Samson C Shell 37ft thats for sale there. She looks pretty much unchanged from when she first splashed back in the 70's but who cares if the price is right and she's structurally sound.

Ive pretty much absorbed every site on the subject i could find on the web but if any have information on the particular type ( Samson C Shell Ketch) it would be great to hear about it.

For example Alan (Wheels ) talked about some being built with ferro decks and cabins and being worse off for it but also said some where designed like that. Is the C Shell one of those designs as the boat im looking at has a full ferro deck and cabin.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Tim

[Feral Cement]

I am the semi-proud, uber-surprised, and wondering "what the H*** have I gotten into?" new owner of a Hartley 45 ferro project. Boracay asked the salient question: What level of risk are you willing to take? Since I got the boat for $611, I can't quiver too hard in my ten-and-a-halfs about it. A decent survey would cost that much, and if I just give it up and let it go, I'm a $600 fool, not a $30,000 fool.

All that said, if I understand the FC "thing" correctly, just sitting in salt water will not corrode the rods to dust, it takes a big crack from impact to allow and promote the level of rust that would cause severe structural damage. Owner says bilge is dry, no cracks to be seen, hull fair, needing paint. The topsides, formerly plywood and fiberglass, are in mid-reconstruction, as is the cabin area. Here are some photos:

(Not sure if they'll show)

It's gonna take a lot of work, and more cash than I care to ponder, but if the hull checks out and all of the pieces are there as promised, I'm gonna be sailing in salt water for under 10K.

Flame me if you must for buying a boat, ANY boat, sight unseen, but remember even turtles only make progress when they stick their necks out.

John

[Boracay]

It looks looks like you are going to be learning more about ferro than any of us could ever want to.

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

Oh, and good luck...

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by Boracay

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

Oh, and good luck...

yes but it could cost you a lot more than $611 if it sinks. I know someone who got a $40000 bill from parks vic for a 1000 boat. but good luck and if you start a blog let us know.

[Feral Cement]

Yes, by proximity and ownership, I'm taking a full 15 credit-hours of Ferro 101. I welcome the advice of other FC owners who can help me learn without making my own mistakes. Remember though, ferro boats have a lot more in common with vessels of other materials than they have unique characteristics.

Boracay - what are the specs on your BR44? LOD, LWL, beam, draft, mast height, SA, weight, etc. Do you notice any operational/functional distinction in FC boats vs steel? I suspect you see a few more in Oz than we do in NC-USA.

BTW, visited AU and NZ in the 70's with the US Navy. Steel all the way, no FC or FG.

Cheers,
John

[Feral Cement]

The history of this thread tells me that Alan owns the same type boat as I (Hartley Tahitian 45) and has a good bit of experience with refitting and refurbishing the craft. If anyone knows how to reach Alan, please tell him that his input is being sought. Also, if anyone else has pictures or do's and dont's with these vessels, I am all ears -- except for that part of me that eats and a couple of fingers for the keyboard. Other than that....

Thanks,

John

[pdbms]

Feral Cement,

We have just completed the delivery voyage of our newly acquired Tahitian 45 named 'Tahiti K'.

The performance of the vessel under sail was surprising. We achieved 8 knots in winds gusting to 16 knots on a broad reach. The speed was measured as speed over ground using the GPS as the log was not registering.

During our first night at sea, winds increased to 27 knots and seas increased proportionately. The vessel remained comfortable and extremely stable. At the height of the winds, we dropped the no. 1 genoa, and replaced it with the no. 4 (the main was down to 2nd reef since the winds went over 15 knots). Apart from the 2 crew on watch, everyone else on board slept on, not knowing that the breeze had even increased.

We are now looking forward to getting to know the boat over the coming years. We will continue to use this forum to keep you informed on our progress.

Kevin.

[Feral Cement]

It's an awesome feeling when you get confirmation that you made a good choice.

I'd like to hear more about 'Tahiti K' - what she's got, what she needs, good points, bad points, present condition, etc. How long was the delivery voyage? Any pictures?

Any other Hartley 45's out there?

John

[pdbms]

John,

Delivery voyage was approx 160 nm. We departed 10:30 hrs Sunday 28 June and arrived 17:00 hrs Tuesday 30 June. We had an overnight stop on Moreton Island where I had to replace a sea water hose in the cooling system.

Photos are gradually being added to the 'Tahiti K' album. Just click on my username and you can get to my profile. The album should be available from the profile.

I will eventually do a 'My Boat' posting but for now she is comfortable with 5 berths (usable) and a potential 4 additional with some slight mods. The galley is large with a full size domestic stove (with the stability of the vessel under sail, it was still usable). Saloon seats 5 comfortably but will seat 8 when I make some more mods. She needs a freshen up with paint. Some timber work to be finished. Electrics work but only just - 110 ah house, 90 ah crank, 3X55w solar panels, 50 amp alternator on diesel. Electronics wise - GPS, windspeed/direction, sounder/log, autohelm, radar (u/s atm), vhf and hf (ham Icom 720), small inverter. No 240V (equiv to oz domestic supply). No hot water system. 16.5 metre (54 foot) Mast section is approx 10" X 8" and all rigging is 13mm 19strand SS. She has a main in so-so condition, a heavy no. 1 genoa, a lighter no. 2 genoa, a no. 3 (unknown condition) and no. 4 headsail near new, a new storm sail, and a near new spinnaker.

My criteria for puchase were - sound hull and rig, able to set to sea immediately. Low purchase price. High volume - accommodation for at least 7. She has fulfilled all of those admirably.

Kevin.

[Feral Cement]

Kevin -- That's a beautiful boat you have there. Aside from the lines and finish, I like the golden trim that shows in various spots (sail covers, boot stripe, etc.) Very classy.

Mine is certainly a "diamond in the rough". I might use your pic as my computer background to remind myself of the goal. And I have a LOT of questions.

If Kevin and I are mis-using this thread as we discuss our Hartleys, or if others find this boring or annoying, let me know (it's my fault) and we'll move the conversation. In the meantime, I remain envious of Kevin's boat.

John

[Ngairini O'Kell]

Hey still curious as to who you are and if we met when young. My Dad is Wilf OKell and Mum Di. We were in Bundy email okellewdm@hotmail.com if you want to get in touch. Cheers Ngairini

Originally Posted by Whiptail

Hey Mudnut, with regards to Wilf O'Kell - he used to be in Bundaberg (may still be!) and designed and built a lot of ferro boats in the 70's and 80's. I remember as a young tacker going with my father to help plaster a hull for him, being research for the schooner the old man would later build. Wilf even came down with his team for the plastering of ours, no doubt encouraged by the keg on the verandah afterwards. We had the hull done in one shot and all in daylight hours and what a party that night! Pity I was only about 10.
As for the strength of ferro - our schooner was left on a mooring in Nelson Bay for a couple of months, and on return to Mooloolaba we slipped her for maintenance, finding a patch of gouges below the waterline. After a few phone calls the marina finally admitted that the mooring line had busted in a 40 knot blow and the old girl had ended up on the rocks, only discovered the next morning after bumping on the chop against the rocks for half the night. They just fixed the line and tied her back up hoping we wouldn't notice. The end result was a few cosmetic gouges that didn't expose any metal, so a bit of filler and some paint was all she needed.

[Feral Cement]

PDBMS and others --

I would like as many pictures as you care to send of Hartley Tahitian 45's in various stages of refit or as completed. I particular, pictures that show interior layout and cabintop/pilothouse construction. Where is the engine in relation to the hull and cabin? Is your salon raised to just clear the engine, or is it raised further to afford visibility? Any aft cockpit examples out there? Any changes you WISH you had made and didn't, or changes you WISH you hadn't made but did?

Thanks - knowledge is power.

John

[pdbms]

John,

More photos have been uploaded.

I have found what appears to be your boat on ebay. The page said it sold for $1335, how did you manage to get it for half of that?

Kevin

[Boracay]

Alan Wheeler has loaded lots of photos of his boat (Looks like a Hartley Tahitian) into the photo gallery.

Link here.

Could be worth a look.