Ferro Cement Hulls?

[Boracay]

I built a Hartley RORC 32' a long time ago.

I believe that you do need to seal the ferro to prevent it being touched by bilge water. A mixture of diesel and sea water is reputed to be very destructive on ferro.

I used a very thin epoxy (soaks into the microcracks) as primer and tar epoxy as topcoat but this was a long time ago, there may be better products now.

I do not believe that you can glue to ferro as you would to fibreglass. It will most likely pull the cement off the reinforcing.

I bolted everything to the frames with 3/8" gal bolts.

Come to think of it I still like bolting everything to the frames with 8mm bolts.

[pdbms]

Can I get someone to tell me what is the difference between FC and epoxyferro construction? Are they different, from a longevity / strength point of view?

[Ngairini O'Kell]

Ferro-cement hulls were my fathers business and he speaks highly of them. If you want any more info please email me at Ngairini@hotmail.com or Wilf O'Kell on okellewdm@hotmail.com cheers, Ngairini

Originally Posted by marleman

My partner and I are currently researching live-aboard yachts, and despite doing a search of this site I have not found any mention (or discussion) of ferro-cement hulls.
We have spoken to a couple of people who own them and who say they can be very capable (although warning that there have been some very bad 'backyard' ones built) however others speak of them like the Black Death!

I would appreciate the opinions of those in this forum,
Thanks,
Marlene

[kimberlydreamin]

Hi all have read the thread with great interest as i am heading down to Brisbane next week to look at a Samson C Shell 37ft thats for sale there. She looks pretty much unchanged from when she first splashed back in the 70's but who cares if the price is right and she's structurally sound.

Ive pretty much absorbed every site on the subject i could find on the web but if any have information on the particular type ( Samson C Shell Ketch) it would be great to hear about it.

For example Alan (Wheels ) talked about some being built with ferro decks and cabins and being worse off for it but also said some where designed like that. Is the C Shell one of those designs as the boat im looking at has a full ferro deck and cabin.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Tim

[Feral Cement]

I am the semi-proud, uber-surprised, and wondering "what the H*** have I gotten into?" new owner of a Hartley 45 ferro project. Boracay asked the salient question: What level of risk are you willing to take? Since I got the boat for $611, I can't quiver too hard in my ten-and-a-halfs about it. A decent survey would cost that much, and if I just give it up and let it go, I'm a $600 fool, not a $30,000 fool.

All that said, if I understand the FC "thing" correctly, just sitting in salt water will not corrode the rods to dust, it takes a big crack from impact to allow and promote the level of rust that would cause severe structural damage. Owner says bilge is dry, no cracks to be seen, hull fair, needing paint. The topsides, formerly plywood and fiberglass, are in mid-reconstruction, as is the cabin area. Here are some photos:

(Not sure if they'll show)

It's gonna take a lot of work, and more cash than I care to ponder, but if the hull checks out and all of the pieces are there as promised, I'm gonna be sailing in salt water for under 10K.

Flame me if you must for buying a boat, ANY boat, sight unseen, but remember even turtles only make progress when they stick their necks out.

John

[Boracay]

It looks looks like you are going to be learning more about ferro than any of us could ever want to.

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

Oh, and good luck...

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by Boracay

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

Oh, and good luck...

yes but it could cost you a lot more than $611 if it sinks. I know someone who got a $40000 bill from parks vic for a 1000 boat. but good luck and if you start a blog let us know.

[Feral Cement]

Yes, by proximity and ownership, I'm taking a full 15 credit-hours of Ferro 101. I welcome the advice of other FC owners who can help me learn without making my own mistakes. Remember though, ferro boats have a lot more in common with vessels of other materials than they have unique characteristics.

Boracay - what are the specs on your BR44? LOD, LWL, beam, draft, mast height, SA, weight, etc. Do you notice any operational/functional distinction in FC boats vs steel? I suspect you see a few more in Oz than we do in NC-USA.

BTW, visited AU and NZ in the 70's with the US Navy. Steel all the way, no FC or FG.

Cheers,
John

[pdbms]

John,

More photos have been uploaded.

I have found what appears to be your boat on ebay. The page said it sold for $1335, how did you manage to get it for half of that?

Kevin

[Boracay]

Alan Wheeler has loaded lots of photos of his boat (Looks like a Hartley Tahitian) into the photo gallery.

Link here.

Could be worth a look.

[Feral Cement]

Kevin --

That was the first time it sold. Bidder bailed out; sold again, same result, sold again, same result. I was the 4th "buyer". Seller wanted it to go to a sailor, not a dreamer. Said he had 15K in it; I'll find out next weekend.

Boracay --

Thanks for the link to Alan's pics. Nice to see what my hulk can become.

John

[osirissail]

Wow, I love all the numbers and PSI/ratios/etc., stuff. Especially since I was an engineer in my former life. But back to real life. The common shared concept in both guys is _ "properly built". In real life be it amateur or professionally built, money rules and so huge numbers of boats - FRG, Metal, or FerroC just are not "properly built."
When purchasing a used boat, your best chance - without some very serious examination - of getting a reasonably sturdy boat is to go with FRG - witness the overwhelming numbers of FRG boats out there.
As to metal boats, the axiom for steel is "never buy used steel". The rationale for that is steel is more expensive and must be kept dry and clean or it rusts from the inside out. Most used boats are sold because the owner lost interest in the boat or cannot afford to maintain the boat.
Aluminum is better in the corrosion arena - but - it must have had an owner seriously interested in keeping it away from copper (pennies, paints, etc.).
Wood, well, ever heard of "worms"? Used, inexpensive wood boats are probably in the same ranking as ferrocement. Even FRG covered wood is tricky as any collision damage due to reefs, rocks, etc. can open the underlying wood to infestation. I had a friend years ago that brought his magnificant mohogany cutter into the boatyard for repair to a leaking plank and ending crying for days after finding serious infestation thorugh the hull. The boat ended up in the dumpster.
And ferrocement, again there must be a reason why insurance companies are extremely unlikely to insure them and a reason for the very low resale prices compared to other hull materials. I would have to agree that "properly" done FC is up there with steel - but how many are "properly" done?
So, bottom line when looking for a used boat - if you are knowledgable (seriously knowledgable) FC and Steel are the best bets followed by Aluminum and then FRG. If you are a normal person then FRG is the least "risky" choice.
Prices of used boats, like anything else, follows the real quality of construction and reputation of the manufacturer mitigated somewhat by the overall reputation of the hull material of the whole world fleet of that material.
There are fantastic bargains out there on serious quality boats in any hull material - the trick is finding them. That takes time, education/research, and luck.

[Feral Cement]

While we're about it, can anyone point me to a link or discussion as to the best way to seal and paint the decks on a cement boat? I'm guessing it has something to do with epoxy and LPU, but that's just a guess. Anyone? Thanks.

John

[Brent Swain]

Steel boats only rust out from the inside if the builder is dense enough to not paint the inside well in the beginning, or is dense enough to assume that sprayfoam is adequate protection.
Brent

[TAKUTORI]

Hello All,

Since buying our ferrocement yacht we have now traveled around 11,000 miles - without a problem or even a second thought about the hull.

We are currently tied to a mooring ball at the Bora Bora Yacht Club, French Polynesia. We are in 70 feet of water and we can see the bottom.

If you're interested, you can view our travel pictures at:
TAKU TORI - The adventures of Bill & Sandy aboard S/V TAKU TORI. A 58ft Yacht.- powered by SmugMug

I love this picture: TAKU TORI - The adventures of Bill & Sandy aboard S/V TAKU TORI. A 58ft Yacht.- powered by SmugMug

The only thing I would do different on another ocean passage is to put more antifouling paint on the hull. We haven't anitfouled in 2 years and the paint is mostly gone; however we do intent to haul in Fiji in a few weeks.

A note on performance: Nearly all cruising boats, certainly the 100's we've met along the way, regardless of construction and to a large degree the overall length, all average about 5 knots on passage. We've had a top speed of 11.3 knots once off the coast of Mexico, but we've had more 5-7 knot passages, being the average. What is important is your sail plan. Having the right sails for the conditions and in particular Light Wind sails. If you're like us and the majority of other cruisers, you won't travel when it's blowing a gale. We spent money on Tri-sails, storm jibs, storm staysail, tracks and other equipment - NEVER to use them. We should have bought a huge assymmetrical headsail and set the boat up with twin headsails. I'm not saying to forget the storm jib, not at all, what I'm saying is you'll spend the most time in light airs and you'll enjoy it more if you don't have to motor everywhere.

There's nothing wrong with ferrocement or any any other type of construction, but BEWARE - if you put it up on a reef because of brail navigation, you're screwed. Everything sinks in the end.

Regards,