Ferro Cement Hulls?

[one_day35]

Hey all. My name is Dan, and I`m brand new to this site (haven`t even got around to posting on `meet and greet`), and indeed am also newish to the cruising life, having only purchased my first cruising yacht 15 months ago. I did however do an extensive and exhaustive amount of research into yachts which were not only within my meagre budget, but were also suitable for the type of cruising and other use I had for the boat. I went back and forth for no less than 2 years, studying the market and researching the various build materials and hull designs, and in the end decided on a steel hulled Boro Temptress. Ideally alloy or `glass was my preference, but I did consider ferrocement seriously due to the initial cost. Honestly, although I could have bought a better fitted out and bigger boat built from ferro, often for less than what I paid, the initial saving could and probably would from my research, have ended up costing far more in maintenance and ongoing repair, than any other build material. Bottom line, at least from my understanding, is that ferro boats are cheap (and have a poor reputation), for very good reason! Granted, professionally built ferro hulls have thier fans, and deservedly so in SOME cases, but don`t let your introduction to the great experience of cruising yacht ownership be dampened by buying a lemon boat. Ferro yachts, even well built ones, require a lot of maintenance, are generally slow and unresponsive through the water and are absolutely unforgiving when it comes to the odd mishap. Buy steel! they are just as economical initailly if you shop around, lighter per foot of length, and much more forgiving should you `bump` into something you shouldn`t bump into. Cheers

[4900bruce]

welcome dan,having owned two ferro boats and been sailing offshore off and on for 18 years can you please explain what maintance is required with a ferro boat.I have only ever antifouled my hulls each year so I must be missing somthing.

[one_day35]

OOPS! I hasten to add that my advice of `buy steel`, is based on what I assume to be a limited budget, coupled with relative ease and cost of ongoing maintenance. I found that in my own limited budget, I had a choice between ferrocement, steel, and timber. As stated, my ideal choice was to buy either fibreglass, or plate alloy, but both proved, even with substantial compromise, to be outside my financial restrictions. Timber was also considered and in fact the strongest AND lightest build material, especially given its fantastic displacement properties, but having owned timber boats before, and knowing what maintenance can be, drew a line through that option very early in my search. Besides, timber boats within my budget were generally so old and `well used`, that they just didn`t represent good buying.
P.S. The budget I gave myself was 40k AUD, and wth smart buying and hard haggling, I ended up with enough change to make a few improvements and pay for the first years upkeep. Safe buying!

[AuzzieM]

Dan,
As an owner of a liveaboard Hartley Queenslander, I agree with Bruce, no maintenance on the hull, (other than annual cleaning and antifouling).......... just on the wooden cabin areas, which I am stripping the 30 year old paint and fibreglassing.......
Regards
Maurice

I don"t mind the bad press ferros seem to get, (not deserve), because it keeps the price down for us.

[emeraldsea]

I have a professionally built samson c-mist, the hull and decks are as good as new after 32 years. I hauled it out after being in the water for 5 years, giving it a scrub and changing the 2 zincs using my scuba gear previously. After a few hours af high pressure washing the hull looked as good as new minus some fresh paint. I doubt you would get away with that on a steel boat, and they use up alot more zinc. The only real maintinence is on the house which is made of wood. As for strength, my boat has gone through things that would have done serious damage or destroyed other boats. Remember folks the structure of a properly built ferro boat is STEEL. When a 40 foot alloy fishing boat tyed up to me without a bumper through a couple good blows (I was not there at the time) there was some damage to the cement, not the structure. The great thing about a proper built ferro boat is the ease of repair to almost any damage. I had to remove any cracked cement before epoxy & new cement, and I can tell you it took alot of force with a large hammer to remove the stress cracked ferro. The repair was the easy and cheap and you would never know where the damage was. They are not built to win a race, but if you want a very dry, comfortable, seakindly, strong, low maintinence boat then its a great way to go. The key is PROPERLY built as everone knows, and there have definatly been many bad ones that have painted them all with the same brush.

[Alan Wheeler]

probably would from my research, have ended up costing far more in maintenance and ongoing repair, than any other build material.

Then your research was poorly done as it is completely incorrect in both maintenance and speed. Speed depends on the design. There are FC boats built for racing and they do quite well. My boat is a cruiser. i am not going top out do a pocket rocket, but I do OK. In average NZ sailing conditions, I go just as fast as anyone else. In really light airs, I struggle. But I could easily remedy that with having light air sails. I don't have any. All my sail wardrobe is for heavy air.

[cooper]

own a 30 footer ferro, no hull maintenance. 40 years old. Sails beautifully. Very light. Even with a 3/4 keel I can keep up with most trailer sailors, and beat quite a few. I am building a steel boat and KNOW that the steel boat will be MORE ongoing maintenance than my ferro.

[Alan Wheeler]

The maintenance issue with steel is the only thing that stopped us from looking at steel. Now that is not saying all steel boats are rust buckets. Some can look stunning and one of the nicest Steel vessels I have seen is Midlandone's. But when they are bad, they are a nightmare. Aluminium can be great, but once again, once they go bad, they are an even bigger nightmare. The trick to both is in the building. The initial preparation needs to be perfect and the coating system of the very best quality. Preventative maintenance is essential.

[one_day35]

Ok, call me misguided, call me inexperienced, call me what you will, but the fact of the matter ( according to my `poor` research), is that ferro hulls require the owner to be more vigilant than many other build materials due to ferro`s very properties. Ferro cement is porous, so if not absolutely sealed correctly, will admit moisture into its surface, and by the very same information posted in this thread (a properly plastered ferro yacht need be only 1/8" over the reo, unless im misquoting), that does not leave a lot of room for a time-poor owner to get onto any flaws in the sealing coat. Steel (even bare mild steel), will put up with being unsealed in a marine environment for longer. Leave aside the FACT that if steel is left to corrode to such an extent that it compromises the strength of the hull, the offending section can simply be cut out and a patch welded back in, by anyone with access to a welder and limited experience at operating same. Ferro is quite the opposite, requiring skilled tradesmen with boatbuilding experience to solve the nightmare of moisture ingress to a ferro hull. Moreover the effect of moisture ingress to a ferro hull is often not evident until major damage to the hull structure has occoured. Also, and i feel this was an important omission by a previous post, is that ferro does reach ultimate strength after 24-72 hours of curing. What they failed to mention is that its strength actually slowly begins to deteriorate from the moment `ultimate strength` is acheived. Also worth noting that ferro has very limited ability to withstand localised impacts, (read jagged rocky bottoms not listed on the trusty chart) or `touch berthing` during difficult conditons. If you`d like proof of this, I challenge any die-hard ferro stalwart to belt the hull of thier yacht with a 5lb mash hammer and see what happens. You can try the same test with a steel boat (while wearing earplugs, hehe) and see the difference in the result. When I posted my initial thread, I put myself in the shoes of a newcomer on a limited budget, who didn`t necessarily have the finesse or skill to safely manouvre a sizeable yacht at low speeds in shallow or confined spaces. After all, it is this person who started this thread and I believe was looking for advice on a FIRST cruising yacht which would be a pleasure to own as well as being forgiving to the learning process. Having said that I re-iterate that ferros do have thier fans, and thier benefits, but I don`t believe they are a boat suitable for a novice. Cheers
P.S. I`m by no means touting steel as the perfect build material, but they are strong, cheap, and safe for the first time owner.

[Alan Wheeler]

Mate I don't know who told you all this, but you really need a different source for your info.

s that ferro hulls require the owner to be more vigilant than many other build materials due to ferro`s very properties. Ferro cement is porous,

First Fallacy, FC is not porous.

Ferro is quite the opposite, requiring skilled tradesmen with boatbuilding experience to solve the nightmare of moisture ingress to a ferro h

Absolutely so incorrect, it is laughable. In fact, here is a bit of a curve ball for ya. Ever heard of reverse Osmosis?? That is a process that occurs with FC.

mention is that its strength actually slowly begins to deteriorate from the moment `ultimate strength` is acheived.

So so so wrong. The cement continues to harden and actually takes several months to reach full cure strength.

Also worth noting that ferro has very limited ability to withstand localised impacts, (read jagged rocky bottoms not listed on the trusty chart) or `touch berthing` during difficult conditons.

Firstly I would say that it is substantially more than limited. So are you comparing with just steel are you?

If you`d like proof of this, I challenge any die-hard ferro stalwart to belt the hull of thier yacht with a 5lb mash hammer and see what happens.

Actually several of us have and I can assure you that it takes a lot more than a 5lb hammer and I can also assure you that the hammerer comes of second best for the first set of blows.
Look mate, you are so erroneous in all your statements, I suggest you talk to some one other than those that are filling your head with crap and as I have always found, those that knock FC are those that have never had anything to do with it.
I do have to ask, you are new here, you have made a total of three posts and all three are inaccurate knocks at FC. Are you trying to troll??

[cooper]

I am sorry to have to also say "are you trying to troll?" With the internet (and in life) try and get your information from people who have real life experience. As an owner (current ) of a ferro boat and a builder of a steel boat (current) as well as a moderator (new) on the metal boat society forum Welcome to the Metal Boat Society I can assure you that you have a "knockers" point of view. My ferro boat was through no fault of its own, or its passed owner...he died, was left to look after itself for an extended period of time . It was vandalised and had areas of broken hull where items where hastily removed. The boat remained intact , afloat, and reliable. The repairs where way easier than any other material that boats are currently made of. She has since given me a great deal of joy for many years spending large amounts of time with NO hull maintenance on a swing mooring. The steel work has rusted, the timber has rotted, and the fiberglass has delaminated. The hull is still intact. I say again this is a 40 year old boat. To quote "others" is fine if you provide where the quote comes from AND they are ferro owners. I am pleased that you have a steel boat. I hope you understand the maintenance involved , particulaly if it has a paint system that is of an older type or poorly applied. If you find that you have difficulty's , in this area let the MBS know ! If you wish more information on ferro hulls by all means ask questions.....and I did say ask !!!!

[one_day35]

Oh yeah, at the risk of further ruffling feathers, any well built and sufficiently rigged 30'+ cruising yacht SHOULD be able to beat an average trailer salier, for 2 simple reasons:- any fixed keel yacht with correct ballast ratio will outperform the vast majority of similar sized trailer yachts because by thier very design restrictions (tow weight on the road) cannot carry thier ideal ballast in thier keel. has anyone ever succesfully raced a trailer yacht single handed in 15+ knots against a `keeler`? doubtful! Reason 2:- Any displacement hulls ultimate speed is a function of the boats waterline length. There is good reason why the most successful offshore racers in the world today are 100 footers. Do you think the syndicates who financed these supermaxi`s built them this long for any other reason? Sure. design plays a part but when it comes to speed, you cant beat pure size.

[one_day35]

Sorry Alan, but lets do the test.I`ll even supply the hammer! And your welcome to import your best and strongest friend to have a go at my steel hull! The proof is in the action

[one_day35]

Ah screw this, rather than quote and paraphrase endlessly for no result, try assisting somebody`s genuine question about whether a ferro yacht represents good buying! I assume from the fact that that they are even considering ferro yacht in the first place that they are not in the market for a brand new benetau or bavaria. Just another example of blind faith and optimism disguised as actual rounded and well considered advice. Keep your ferro boats, keep your opinions, but the last time I wandered around my local boatyard, and up and down the finger jetties at my marina I could barely find a single UNBIASED party who actually favoured them. Good luck bouncing off the reef! I`m outta here, feel free to delete me as a member!

[cooper]

I am sad to see the post just before my last...I was typing. Obviously not interested. The fact that he wandered the local boat yard and sort opinions ...?....says it all to me......I have had many such opinions. I have been standing beside my boat and people have given me their opinions ....about my wooden boat !! Come back and talk or perhaps be happy in your preconceived ideas. I had many about steel boats too, boy has that changed.....

ps to the old wise ones who where happy to relate their real life experiences ...quietly and truthfully, with no barrow to push, on all manner of boating subjects........a sincere thankyou.