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View Poll Results: Should i refit oddly enough?
Take her to Thailand and refit 6 42.86%
forget it 8 57.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2015, 02:18   #1
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Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Hi guys,

I've had a chat with the owner of this boat Boat for Sale - KP44 <em>Oddly Enough</em>

He has listed quite alot that would need to be done to get her ready for a 3-5 yr trip. they include:
Repower
New main, mabey new genoa too
Update solar system
Battery Bank
Chart plotter/radar/ais
full bottom job (ground back, barrier coat and repainted)
Top sides, deck and while its there hull respray.
kitchen reno too. New counter tops etc.


She is located in Kudat, borneo, I was there late last year helping deliver a boat to singapore. I'd say the best bet would be to get her to thailand to do the work.

I have no idea how much this would all cost. We have budgeted around 100k for our first cruising boat, so if we get the boat for say 20-30 k that leaves 70 to do all of the above.

Some rough estimate would be great or just tell me to forget it.

Cheers, Jesse
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:51   #2
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Without first hand knowledge of the available shipyards and quality of work it's impossible to make an educated guess. Will you act as the full time general contractor? Do you posess the technical skills to ensure the various upgrades are done to ABYC or Lloyds specifications?
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:53   #3
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Jesse.
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:55   #4
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

It's been said here many times, if you want a project, buy one.
If you want to go sailing, don't buy a project.
Usually, almost always it ends up costing way more than you expected and more than you could have bought a boat for that had already had the work done, but you really know a lot more about the boat, especially if you did the work yourself.

Just don't think you will save money, most don't.
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:43   #5
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Nothing brings you closer to your boat than a re-fit and "The Boat" soon becomes part of your family, in the way its maintained and serviced.
Our long range goals are to visit Thailand for a re-do of our interior.

The items you bring up would seem to be normal for a boat thats been out cruising for a few years so if no structual issues are there, and she fits your wants, go for it...
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:55   #6
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

If you're willing to spend that much I think you'd be better off getting a 70k boat that needs 10-20k of work, rather than a 30k boat that needs 70k of work.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:40   #7
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Just a quick response without too much thought.
1. How much of the work are you capable of doing yourself?
2. While labor may not be expensive in Borneo, epoxy and other items you need will be very expensive, i.e., if they are available. Shipping can often cost more than the item.
3. How much below book value is the boat?
4. You note that this is your "first cruising boat," so in a sense, without being condescending, it would suggest you are not exactly sure what you want, and what you will settle for as opposed to what is available.
5. You also don't state your location.
6. I'd suggest that you look at as many available boats as you can, schedule a trip to Borneo with the initial intent of seeing the orangutangs, and casually stop off at Kudat, and INSPECT the boat. Then go to a place that has the most similar boats for sale, and then review your options.
7. I can't emphasize enough the association between boat repair skills, time needed for repairs, cost and availability of materials. Note: I am in the US, redoing my boat that is now 90 miles from the ocean and away from related industries. Don't know what I would do if it weren't for the Internet and Amazon.
8. Just came up with a site that asks all the right questions and even supplies great answers.
Fundamentals of Restoration Projects: This Old Boat

Time to return to my boat work that required six months, and is now taking two years.
All the best!
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:50   #8
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Remember, refitting a boat like that will usually take much much more than you estimate in time and money. The list of things needing done will likely double or triple.
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:38   #9
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

I forgot to mention TOOLS. You will need tools for repairs. Electric is 230/240.

More info on Borneo and what you will need can be found on:
Borneo Adventure | FAQs on travel in Sabah, Sarawak & Brunei
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:42   #10
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpwales90 View Post
He has listed quite alot that would need to be done to get her ready for a 3-5 yr trip. they include:
Repower
New main, maybe new genoa too
Update solar system
Battery Bank
Chart plotter/radar/ais
full bottom job (ground back, barrier coat and repainted)
Top sides, deck and while its there hull respray.
kitchen reno too. New counter tops etc.
Very, very rough guesstimates that you asked for:
$20-30k Repower
$5k New main
$4k New genoa
$2k New solar panels, controller, wiring
$1k New battery bank
$5k New radar, chart plotter, ais
$10k Strip and Barrier coat (just a guess, no idea what this would cost in Borneo)
$10k Repaint everything (no clue, I did this in Cape Town and think it was about that)
$2k Corian kitchen counters
= ~$69-79k

Again, that's, like, misremembering numbers from what similar things have cost me in the past. The repower is a broad range because it depends how much work you do yourself, and if you can reuse the exhaust system and etc.

But then I'd add:
$2k New liferaft (after ~>5 years the current one may cost more to recertify)
$0.5k New EPIRB (the batteries die)
$0.5k New battery charger (he mentions it's dead)
$1k New running rigging
$2k New rudder (he mentions that)

+ A whole lot more for random stuff you don't know about.

I feel boats like that can be a great bargain for folks who know what they are doing, with maintenance and priorities, and are willing to accept risk and let projects slide. Folks who are happy to sail with a bit of imperfection, live with the occasional broken or sketchy thing, and put off projects until they are absolutely necessary or inexpensive to do.

Say, someone who is fine with worn out sails and will just keep patching them and keeping them going. And would keep the engine working for as long as possible. And then repower it themselves, possibly with a used engine from another boat. Or if they were super, they'd marinize a used diesel engine from an 18 wheelers refrigerator. And wouldn't dream of repainting the entire topsides or redoing barrier coat.

In my mind, folks like that would buy this boat for $20k, have $5k in their pocket to wrap up anything unexpected and get her in the water, then take off and have fun wandering around Asia. This boat should have great bones, and would do well to very budget folks who want to spend money only as necessary. If the diesel seizes, maybe they'd go teach English in Korea for a while, living on the boat, to save up for a new one.

Or someone who really knows maintenance and wants to do a complete refit on a KP44. So they are just shopping for a good 'core' to start replacing everything on. Some people do this so that they get to go cruising with all new equipment and a boat that they've setup themselves and know inside out. They end up with a practically 'new' classic boat. This is often more expensive than buying a sistership that doesn't need new everything.

But I feel that 'your list' reveals expectations that are way higher. For example, it's hard to tell from the photos and description, but I'm not sure I agree that the engine, solar, and sails absolutely need to be replaced. Maybe they could wait a few years, or five. And I think, in that light, bringing this boat up to your higher standards might be more expensive and work than buying a sistership that is already where you want it to be. I feel if you want to sail with a new engine and sails, and etc, it may be better to just buy a boat with them.

So, to the overall question -- maybe. It depends on what kind of future and experience you want. I feel like, to make sense, you'd have to delete a bunch of the aesthetic, optional (ais/radar/chartplotter), and 'not yet' items from the list, and be willing to do most of the work yourself. In that case, the boat could be a great bargain and the start of a grand adventure.
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Old 09-04-2015, 13:32   #11
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

The KP 44 is a great boat for offshore work. They came with a set of problems that needed to be looked after and none of them is cheap. That said try to find a real good one as no matter how good you will still have to write some large cheques along the way so it just doesn't make sense to buy a project unless you have lots of time and very good skills and a desire to keep the boat for many years. These boats are still really good passage makers and are easy on the eye, certainly one of my favorite CC boats ever produced. Good luck in your search!
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Old 09-04-2015, 16:59   #12
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Would you like to go sailing ? Or would you like to be tied up in a project ? My 2 month project is now at 2 & 1/2 years and still going . 2 more months and it will be done ?

Like i said , do you want to go sailing ? Or be TIED UP in a project ?

Its the little thing that take time to find , and thousands of dollars !

There are way to many boats out there to get tied up in a project , just saying .
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Old 09-04-2015, 17:15   #13
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

KP= Kelly Peterson. The Kelly Peterson 46 was built by Queen Long in Taiwan. The design was a collaboration with San Diego yacht broker Jack Kelly and San Diego designer Doug Peterson. A well built boat that usually sells for more than the Peterson 44.

If the boat in question is a 44 then it is not a KP but rather a Peterson 44 a different beast and the values are different.
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Old 09-04-2015, 21:12   #14
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

I thought all of the 44s were KP44s and the 46 could be a
KP46 or the Formosa 46. Lovely boats. I have been on a few KP44s .
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Old 09-04-2015, 21:56   #15
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Re: Feelings on this boat (kp44)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpa View Post
I thought all of the 44s were KP44s and the 46 could be a
KP46 or the Formosa 46. Lovely boats. I have been on a few KP44s .
Formosa did make copy of the KP46 called the Formosa 46. When I was selling boats I was always careful to distinguish between the 2. Been out of that game for a while so do not know the market, when I was active the KP46 always had a higher value. Something like KP46 160K-150K Formosa 46 130K the Peterson 44s would sell for under 95K a lot less if the condition was average.
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