Fake Boats?

[ironworker]

i know this is going to be a very slow boat im in no hurry. What i want is a safe boat in the middle of the ocean that can take a beaten and i think ive got it.

[s/v Jedi]

Managing to sail around the world is by far not a measure for "a good boat". Nowadays, even catamarans manage this

We have 25 metric tons on 64' of waterline and she sails like a dream. I see many boats that have 30+ metric tons on a 45' waterline and they don't manage half my daily average passage distance.

It is not just the weight. In order to get it moving, you need a powerful sail plan and sail trim, which will be a drag once getting up to speed, acting as a brake to really make progress.

[ironworker]

Boy thats a big boat jedi yea its going take some wind to get this thing moving and keep it going

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Jesus 15 tones over 36 feet. You'll be using that diesel a lot. And that presumably LOL , what's the water line say 32 !! ... You say there's 8000 lbs in the keel , that's about 4 tonnes right ? , Jesus where's the other 11 tonnes ?? What's her AVS , could be awful. Dave

Ironworker may not be aware of AVS or even what it stands for. However, lucky for him, there are many experts on this forum and most agree Moderator SWL (Seaworthy Lass) is the real deal on this issue and many others. She's our Go-To Gal.

I can sense her blushing now.

[ironworker]

angle of vanishing stability but dont ask me to try and calculate it i made sure i put all the heavy bits as low as posible and centered i hope she will roll right back up . That what i tell the wife.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by ironworker

angle of vanishing stability but dont ask me to try and calculate it i made sure i put all the heavy bits as low as posible and centered i hope she will roll right back up . That what i tell the wife.

Good on ya, IW. I was really just screwing with Dave/SWL who have had some discussion on this issue.

One would hope ya didn't go to all that effort and expense just winging it. I'm likewise fairly sure you've heard of Brent Swain but if not, ya have now.

[ironworker]

Blue crab just put couple of pictures in gallery im going to try and do a album wish me luck that way yall can see the build

[goboatingnow]

I wish Ironworker all the best with his boat. If his numbers are as he said it , she will need a lot of diesel or a huge sail plan to move her in light airs, remember gales are the rarity not the norm. Most of the time we are looking for wind.

weight and strength are also not the same, nor is strength in areas where it isn't needed much use at all.


I still can figure a 4 ton keel on that overall weight for that that size. She must have an awful lot of heavy plate.

dave

[ironworker]

Ha dave shes got 3/16 plate on bottom and 1/8 sides and deck .Very bottom of keel 3/4 thick

[scotty c-m]

Normally I limit myself to one post on this type of post ("which is better...?") since it is often opinions. However, I read somthing interesting today that actually brings a new thought to the table. From Hornblower and the Hotspur, page 80. Yes, I'm rereading it after many years. I haven't seen this idea posted yet, but I might have missed it. so......

"The wind was shrieking in the rigging, bending her lenghtwise, upward in the center first and then upward at the ends next. But that groaning was a reassuring sound; there were no sharp cracks or disorderly noises, and what could be heard was merely and indication the Hotspur was being flexile and sensible instead of being rigid and brittle."

Perhaps our ideas of bluewaterness should include this idea of flexibility. Trees bending in the wind and all. Fiberglass does flex (ask any surfer), and holds up for years. This would not excuse weak scantlings, fastinings, tabs, or gear, but would add a design element appropriate for the sea.

As I posted before, I think there are many bluewater designs - or looking at it from the other side of the coin - all of them are compromises. Preparation and seamanship are the key elements, in my opinion. Reminds me of the old saying: Man plans, God decides.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by scotty c-m

Normally I limit myself to one post on this type of post ("which is better...?") since it is often opinions. However, I read somthing interesting today that actually brings a new thought to the table. From Hornblower and the Hotspur, page 80. Yes, I'm rereading it after many years. I haven't seen this idea posted yet, but I might have missed it. so......

"The wind was shrieking in the rigging, bending her lenghtwise, upward in the center first and then upward at the ends next. But that groaning was a reassuring sound; there were no sharp cracks or disorderly noises, and what could be heard was merely and indication the Hotspur was being flexile and sensible instead of being rigid and brittle."

Perhaps our ideas of bluewaterness should include this idea of flexibility. Trees bending in the wind and all. Fiberglass does flex (ask any surfer), and holds up for years. This would not excuse weak scantlings, fastinings, tabs, or gear, but would add a design element appropriate for the sea.

As I posted before, I think there are many bluewater designs - or looking at it from the other side of the coin - all of them are compromises. Preparation and seamanship are the key elements, in my opinion. Reminds me of the old saying: Man plans, God decides.

Think Beneteau has read that book to many times At least they got their "Bendy" name back for it heheh...
The problem with flex is that it kills performance (stiff equals speed) and cracks the gelcoat or paint.

[David_Old_Jersey]

No one (else) can say if "You" and "Your" boat (of any make or size) can "safely" go RTW.

But (IMO) most Boats (over 35') can go RTW - "Safely"......but they all need mods, for a mix of overlapping reasons (increased seaworthiness / redundancy / comfort). Some could go RTW ad infinitum - others would be structurally wanked after one RTW as not up to the repeated stress.........and were never intended to be.

Most Skippers (and crew) are not up to a RTW trip! - at least not when they set out. But most are capable of learning as they go.

For both boat and skipper (and crew) preparation is the key when venturing to sea (across the bay or RTW) - how much and what that consists of is down to the choices of the Skipper and his / her ability to judge the difference between "giving it a go" vs "relying on blind luck".


*35' picked as an arbitrary length - some under are capable, but the percentages of those ever decrease with length (and the requirements for the Skipper increase).

[lifeofreilly57]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

No one (else) can say if "You" and "Your" boat (of any make or size) can "safely" go RTW.

But (IMO) most Boats (over 35') can go RTW - "Safely"......but they all need mods, for a mix of overlapping reasons (increased seaworthiness / redundancy / comfort). Some could go RTW ad infinitum - others would be structurally wanked after one RTW as not up to the repeated stress.........and were never intended to be.

Most Skippers (and crew) are not up to a RTW trip! - at least not when they set out. But most are capable of learning as they go.

For both boat and skipper (and crew) preparation is the key when venturing to sea (across the bay or RTW) - how much and what that consists of is down to the choices of the Skipper and his / her ability to judge the difference between "giving it a go" vs "relying on blind luck".


*35' picked as an arbitrary length - some under are capable, but the percentages of those ever decrease with length (and the requirements for the Skipper increase).

Pretty much sums it up. Well put.

[WindLove]

A good boat is one you can afford.

[DoubleWhisky]

Ironworker's boat was originally designed by John G. Hanna (creator of "Tahiti Ketch"). The name for the design was Carol.
The design of "White Seal" in which Gerry Trobridge circumnavigated, was adapted for this task by his friend, and also well known boat designer, Thomas Colvin. So I think, that numbers are O.K. - it is just a heavyweight, old style cruiser, designed to withstand everything and little more.
Not to today tastes, but well proven.

Cheers, Ironworker, wish You all the best