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Old 24-12-2013, 20:25   #16
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Re: Fake Boats?

Post #2 has it right. Go to the boat show and tour the various makes, some of the differences should be obvious. But when you dig deeper and look at manufacturing, equipment, ergonomics, tankage, stowage, etc. your eyes and mind will begin to open up. When you finally take one of the bue water boats out for a sail, then you will know the difference and why they cost more.

The same with cars. Just because the Ford, Chevy etc. will get you from point A to point B just like the Bentley... Doesn't mean the Ford or Chevy is equal to the Bentley in terms of value, ride quality, craftsmanship and performance.
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Old 24-12-2013, 20:30   #17
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Re: Fake Boats?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Just because the Ford, Chevy etc. will get you from point A to point B just like the Bentley... Doesn't mean the Ford or Chevy is equal to the Bentley in terms of value, ride quality, craftsmanship and performance.
But just because the Bently costs more, has more engineering behind it and by all acounts is a better built car doesn't it mean you need the Bently to go Cruising over the Hunter. I've seen enough Hunters and other prodution boats out cruising to know they are having just as much fun as the guys with the Island Packets or Valiants with more cash left over for a longer time out cruising.
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Old 24-12-2013, 20:32   #18
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Re: Fake Boats?

Probably a bit longer of an answer than you wanted, but here is a decent one: Amazon.com: Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Handling, and Gear eBook: John Vigor: Kindle Store
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Old 24-12-2013, 21:22   #19
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Re: Fake Boats?

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But just because the Bently costs more, has more engineering behind it and by all acounts is a better built car doesn't it mean you need the Bently to go Cruising over the Hunter. I've seen enough Hunters and other prodution boats out cruising to know they are having just as much fun as the guys with the Island Packets or Valiants with more cash left over for a longer time out cruising.
I had a Hunter, then realized that I needed to upgrade our vessel in order to feel safe sailing where I intended to sail.
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Old 24-12-2013, 23:01   #20
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Re: Fake Boats?

Personally I think the reason almost any boat today is OK for bluewater sailing is because so much has changed. Our weather reporting todays is the best ever, sailors can get more and better info today. Epirb's, and all other types of locators are better. Sat phones that allow you to call from any place on earth. Tons of people cruise in rallies and rely on each other. Today if you lose a rudder on your production boat its inconvenient because help will arrive very quickly. Not that many years ago if you lost your rudder on a fin keeled/spade rudder boat you may have lost your life because the odds of anyone finding you was pretty low.
When we started cruising no one had Epirbs and no one had Sat phones much less water makers and grib files or weather routers so things have really changed. Back then you needed a boat that could handle pretty much anything. If everyone today who lost a rudder offshore were to die then I think sailors might have different opinions but that's not the case so what boat is OK for bluewater sailing, assuming you stay on the milk run,,,pretty much anything that sails I guess.
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Old 25-12-2013, 03:36   #21
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We watched a larger monohull boat following us in a nasty downwind run for 10 hours it had a fin keel w bulb. They were cork screwing all over the place for 10 hours. The crew, the autopilot, were both pretty much fatigued by the end of the day.
Great blue water boat?
No friggin way....
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Old 25-12-2013, 03:55   #22
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Re: Fake Boats?

I just did a quick Google and from the top search results, unless your boat is a small fibreglass fishing boat or a canal boat then in the google world you boat is not a blue water boat
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Old 25-12-2013, 05:37   #23
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Re: Fake Boats?

We sailed side by side with a Morgan O/I from Alaska to all over the south Pacific and back to Alaska again, and she preformed right with us. We were aboard what I feel is the quintessential blue water vessel Skookum, and they made it just fine. Every once in awhile we would swap crews for the fun of it. And each crew preferred the ride of their own vessel. The Morgan has a rounder bilge and is shallower draft, so the ride was distinctly different, but each vessel made the voyage in fine order and we had our share of bad weather. So I believe if the vessel is well constructed it is a matter of personal preference. The rest is just ego fodder.
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Old 25-12-2013, 05:59   #24
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Re: Fake Boats?

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The rest is just ego fodder.

That's 99% of the real truth in this topic!
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Old 25-12-2013, 06:24   #25
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Re: Fake Boats?

I agree with the premises that just about any boat can cross an ocean and the poster who stated that it gets safer every years through advancements in everything from weather forecasting to comms to ...well everything..
is dead on too.

To me there is one decent yardstick and it only applies to experienced boaters/sailors....and it's not an endorsement of using the label of "fake" or "toy" boat...it is what it is.

If you buy a boat and plan to cross an ocean....just what and how many little projects do you plan on doing before shoving off?

If you make a list and it's relatively short compared to if you had bought another boat and that list of projects was relatively long...I think you now have your answer.

Obviously this only works for people experienced enough to know what is really needed in a boat to feel safe crossing an ocean...and the biggest factor in the whole concept...is KNOWING what you need to safely cross an ocean in any boat...whether production or custom. Both boats would make it or certainly could make it....it's just a question if some need a little more tweeking before leaving.

That's both my yardstick in selecting boats and judging the skippers of them.
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Old 25-12-2013, 06:31   #26
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pirate Re: Fake Boats?

Man...!! I have so much to learn... Arrrrgggghhhhhhh
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Old 25-12-2013, 06:58   #27
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Re: Fake Boats?

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SNIP

Why are those few boats revered as un-blue water worthy? And if I'm way off the mark and mis interpreting what I've read then I apologize in advance.
A while back there was a thread at CF on the topic of what blue water sailing was.

Way back in 1960 when I was in junior high school my Dad bought an Abaco Schooner in Marsh Harbor and I flew with him to the Bahamas to sail it back to Miami. Once we got off the Little Bahama Bank and the water turned blue I assumed this was blue water sailing, and for someone in junior high school it was blue water. But I also understand how others could have a different definition.

I doubt the Spray would meet lots of modern folks definition of a blue water boat having no electronics, water maker, auto pilot, or a host of other dodads required of todays blue water boats. But even with every modern device required by some folks to meet the definition of a blue water boat I am still reminded of my Dad's advice about semanship, 'you never get better than the ocean'.

And your boat never gets better than the ocean.
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Old 25-12-2013, 07:01   #28
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pirate Re: Fake Boats?

Hunters always seem to be the #1 focus in these types of discussions.

We've had some serious Hunter defenders on CF, and one of the more contentious ones was always bragging about how blazing fast her 31 was. And at least as often, she commented that it was quite tender. That isn't a coincidence. I'm not a NA, YMMV.

Like most, I prefer to sail in 15 knots but dang it!, sometimes the wind pipes up.
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Old 25-12-2013, 07:02   #29
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Re: Fake Boats?

Captain58sailin: "The rest is just ego fodder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
That's 99% of the real truth in this topic!
You're right, I guess all boats are the same... the skipper is the only difference. I also assume that you believe all Hunters and production boats can handle a weather situation just as well as the Oyster 46 in the video below. Picture yourself doing this on your boat... no land in sight. Is it a time when you want to be concerned about your keel or rudder falling off?

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Old 25-12-2013, 07:18   #30
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Re: Fake Boats?

I see more Hunters "out there" than anything else.
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