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Old 30-12-2013, 16:26   #181
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That is one heavy boat. White Seal had a steel trough of 3/4 inch plate for a keel. Bottom plating was a 3/16 inch steel plate. Topsides and cabin were 1/8 inch. Frames were 4 inches by 1/2 inch steel, with six longitudinals of 1 1/2 by 1/4 inch steel let into the frames. The chine and sheer strake were bolstered with 1 1/2 inch pipe.
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Old 30-12-2013, 17:14   #182
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Re: Fake Boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Ironworker's boat was originally designed by John G. Hanna (creator of "Tahiti Ketch"). The name for the design was Carol.
The design of "White Seal" in which Gerry Trobridge circumnavigated, was adapted for this task by his friend, and also well known boat designer, Thomas Colvin. So I think, that numbers are O.K. - it is just a heavyweight, old style cruiser, designed to withstand everything and little more.
Not to today tastes, but well proven.

Cheers, Ironworker, wish You all the best
G'Day DW,

It sounds like you have some access to the original design parameters for the Carol or the White Seal vessels. Did they have the sort of displacement figures that Ironworker is reporting? I still have a hard time believing his numbers, and would like some verification, just for my own knowledge base.

Making some mild assumptions, (LWL=27, Disp= 30000) his displacement to length ratio is around 680. This compares to a Westsail 32 at around 425, which is bloody high itself. It would take a huge rig to push that along in anything short of a gale...

We don't know what his design LWL is, but my assumed 27 feet is reasonable for the LOA and hull type. It could be a bit longer, but the numbers would still be ludicrous.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 30-12-2013, 17:37   #183
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Tahiti's vitals are: length overall 30 feet; load waterline, 26 feet; beam, 10 feet; draft, 4 feet; displacement, 18,100 pounds. Carol's are - 36 feet 8 inches, 32 feet 10 inches, 12 feet, 4 feet, and 29,300 pounds
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Old 30-12-2013, 18:14   #184
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Re: Fake Boats?

Simon, thanks for that.

Somehow I had gotten in in my mind that Ironworker's boat was around 30 ft LOA, not 36.

Using your numbers, the Carol (and presumably this vessel as well) will have a D:L ratio of around 410. Still not so good IMO, but a hell of a lot better that 680!

I think that I will now withdraw from this discussion before I say something else stupid!

Jim
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Old 30-12-2013, 21:37   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Ironworker's boat was originally designed by John G. Hanna (creator of "Tahiti Ketch"). The name for the design was Carol. The design of "White Seal" in which Gerry Trobridge circumnavigated, was adapted for this task by his friend, and also well known boat designer, Thomas Colvin. So I think, that numbers are O.K. - it is just a heavyweight, old style cruiser, designed to withstand everything and little more. Not to today tastes, but well proven. Cheers, Ironworker, wish You all the best
I am in Baytown, Tx at present and there is a 56' foot ketch, the Iron Lady, recently put on the market that my lady loves. I looked it over and like much about it.

The owner is selling due to health problems.

Were it not for the size of the boat, I would likely buy it. That is after a sail. I am a single hander. I have put a lot of time, effort and money in getting my O/I 41 to the point where at sea or coming into port, I can comfortably handle it alone if need be.

It would take a bunch of engineering on my part to get the Iron Lady set up for single handed sailing.

My point is, here is a real is a "real" vessel, ie: not mass produced, that I can buy for a good price, that both I and my my lady look at and talk about every time we walk by, yet I will pass on. I will keep my my much maligned Tupperware Tub.

I don't need a Tayana, Caliber, Westsail, Hinkley, or anything more than my old Morgan to venture beyond sight of land. I will try to watch the weather. I will maintain and continuously upgrade my vessel.

I know what it takes to make a truly ocean safe vessel. I will never own such a vessel nor will any reading this.

Watch the weather. Know your boat. Make what preparations you feel you need to. Know that there are few certainties in life.
Regret for the journey not attempted is one of those certainties.

The work done by the owner of the Iron Lady was a labor of love. I walked with him as he pointed out the new winches, water maker, the beautiful woodwork and saw the same joy that I get from my personal projects.

We name our boats for our own reasons. If you aren't comfortable offering more than the contents of your wallet to you vessel so be it. Not everyone takes pride in their own craftsmanship. Ownership is enough for many. I enjoy doing things on my own when I can.

Fake boats? One the won't float.
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Old 30-12-2013, 21:41   #186
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Re: Fake Boats?

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That said, lots of folks have sailed around the world in non "bluewater" vessels.

One could say of course that sailing a boat around the world does show that she is a blue water vessel...
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Old 31-12-2013, 02:30   #187
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Re: Fake Boats?

A better answer might be that dispite the vessel the skipper knew what he was doing.
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Old 31-12-2013, 03:52   #188
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Re: Fake Boats?

It's a bit like with cars: The Seat Léon, Volkswagen Golf and Audi A3 are all more or less the same car. But don't tell that to an Audi driver...

What i find striking in these kinds of discussions is that always it is asumed that "stronger", "heavier" are by definition better. And that if A is better then B, then B is automatically unsuitable.
(It's similar to the myth that a heavier car is safer then a lighter car).
That's the wrong approach.

For one thing, a lot of the loads on the boat, and on it's rigging are directly related to its weight. A heavier boat will need heavier rigging because the forces on the rig will be higher. As a result the stronger rig one seas on a heavy displacement boat will not necessarily have higher margins of safety...
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Old 31-12-2013, 04:17   #189
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Re: Fake Boats?

Ha Simon thanks for posting white seals specs my boat is build the same she's heavy but I think she will get you were your going safely.
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Old 31-12-2013, 04:21   #190
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Re: Fake Boats?

Rehashing what I said in the other thread.

Manufacturers of the "full keel, heavy displacement" are the Morgan Motor Company of the sailing world.
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Old 31-12-2013, 04:47   #191
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Re: Fake Boats?

That's true happy happy new year to everybody
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Old 31-12-2013, 05:37   #192
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Ha dave shes got 3/16 plate on bottom and 1/8 sides and deck .Very bottom of keel 3/4 thick
Hmm that's about right. Not overdone , are you sure the weight is right ?

Happy new year. Back to the grindstone Thursday !
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Old 31-12-2013, 05:39   #193
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[QUOTE="David_Old_Jersey;1427039" ..... - others would be structurally wanked after one RTW .
.[/QUOTE]

Is that an engineering term then David !!

Dave
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Old 31-12-2013, 05:44   #194
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Rehashing what I said in the other thread.

Manufacturers of the "full keel, heavy displacement" are the Morgan Motor Company of the sailing world.
Is that praise or criticism ?

Dave
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Old 31-12-2013, 06:18   #195
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Re: Fake Boats?

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Is that an engineering term then David !!

Dave
Just descriptive!..........I now have no CF goodies to lose - new year, new rules .
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