Failed survey but still interested...

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by StuM

It didn't "fail" survey. A commercial survey is a pass/fail proposition (it is a statement that a boat complies with relevant legislation/regulations for commercial operations in a particular jurisdiction).

A pre-purchase survey for a pleasure craft just tells you what maintenance is due. (there is always something - and on a 37 year old boat?).

Only you can decide whether the boat is worth (to you) the selling price plus the cost ( in time as well as money) of those maintenance items.

That said, the price is comparable to similar aged Pearson 365s on the market, which are quite likely to need similar maintenance and possibly a lot more.

What that survey has given you is a bargaining chip in negotiating the final price- but it's up to the seller how far he is prepared to come down.

What StuM said. +1

[Steadman Uhlich]

By way of comparison, here is a boat that I was just notified is a new listing on YW. I was just notified today by email, so it may be new to the market.

While the boat appears clean, and I like a few things I notice in the ad, I do think this is an ambitious asking price, given the market and many other boats I have seen recently that are under $30K (see the "Boats Less Than $30K" thread).

I have NO connection to this boat. I am simply posting this link to let you compare.

Pearson 365

Year = 1976

Location = Dennis MA, USA

Asking Price = $33,000 (offers encouraged by broker)

There are numerous photos on the ad, which shows a boat that appears relatively clean, on the hard. Photos include bottom, interior, Cockpit, windlass etc. Given that it is on the hard, you could inspect the bottom and rudder without having to haul out the boat.

Ad = 1976 Pearson 365 Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Description from AD:
"Classic, comfortable Pearson 36 ketch. Hull #51 of this popular Bill Shaw design. 2015 rebuilt Beta 37 hp diesel. Borg Warner transmission rebuilt 2017. Solid sailing boat; could use some modest updates. Great value.

Main sail, 120% furling genoa, 2016 Mizzen. Storm jib, mizzen staysail. Furuno Radar, VHF. Manual windlass. Good ground tackle. New plastic 20 gallon holding tank, self emptying. Recent cabin upholstery. Solar collector on deck. 12 volt refrigeration plates. Propane oven and stove top. Bimini. "

[JPA Cate]

LLCoolDave,

Here's something that may help you: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1-a-78671.html It provides a framework for looking at the current boat, and indeed, any one.

Good luck with it. From what I've seen around here, if you decide to go forward with this boat, people with more experience than you currently have will come forth and help with specific issues as you discover them.

Ann

[DreaminFred]

I have a 365 and am happy with it- I paid $15k. Mine doesn't look as pretty as this one. Your best resource is pearson365.com. Active user group that has struggled with every task you're looking at and more. My take on the boats is they were built pretty well, are old, but still worth keeping running- and a STAND UP SHOWER!

Fred
SV Joy
aboyagirlandaboat.blogspot.com

[james247]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

So I'm in Rio Dulce, Guatemala to look at a Pearson 365 cutter.



http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981...g#.WqAtCKlME1I



Yesterday it failed survey:

Rigging needs to be replaced. $6000

A couple fuel leaks

Water ingress through a chainplate (assume it can be rebedded during rigging)

bonding system not functional

Shaft drive needs alignment

Water leak through the quadrant steering

Varnish is too far gone. It needs to be taken back to the wood. $1000

Needs a new bimini $1000

Radar not functioning



Questionable

chartplotter works but shows discoloration

halfway installed watermarker

Sails have been left on when absent. There is a light green moss on the headsail and most halyards.

Water left in tanks when absent.



This is starting to look pretty grim.



Surveyor said I'd spend $15k to get it up to snuff. He said normally a boat this size and this price it would be a major project. He says that isn't the case for this boat so he kinda gave me the thumbs up if I want to spend the money.



Really it seems the last owner was delinquent (4years)



I also paid for haul out. The hull showed no osmosis.

The engine fired right up and had some smoke. I'm having an engine survey done tomorrow.



Wondering if I should continue with purchase. Not looking for a yes or no but things I should consider.

Sounds like every boat I've ever bought

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

By way of comparison, here is a boat that I was just notified is a new listing on YW. I was just notified today by email, so it may be new to the market.

While the boat appears clean, and I like a few things I notice in the ad, I do think this is an ambitious asking price, given the market and many other boats I have seen recently that are under $30K (see the "Boats Less Than $30K" thread).

I have NO connection to this boat. I am simply posting this link to let you compare.

Pearson 365

Year = 1976


Asking Price = $33,000 (offers encouraged by broker)

There are numerous photos on the ad, which shows a boat that appears relatively clean, on the hard. Photos include bottom, interior, Cockpit, windlass etc. Given that it is on the hard, you could inspect the bottom and rudder without having to haul out the boat.

Ad = 1976 Pearson 365 Ketch Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Description from AD:
"Classic, comfortable Pearson 36 ketch. Hull #51 of this popular Bill Shaw design. 2015 rebuilt Beta 37 hp diesel. Borg Warner transmission rebuilt 2017. Solid sailing boat; could use some modest updates. Great value.

Main sail, 120% furling genoa, 2016 Mizzen. Storm jib, mizzen staysail. Furuno Radar, VHF. Manual windlass. Good ground tackle. New plastic 20 gallon holding tank, self emptying. Recent cabin upholstery. Solar collector on deck. 12 volt refrigeration plates. Propane oven and stove top. Bimini. "

That's a nice one. And I like the info on the engine too. Did anyone else notice the chain plate on the stern for a drogue? Someone had some plans for that boat, though I might beef up that chain plate a bit.
Still waiting on the engine info on the OP's boat. That's the deal breaker or maker in my book.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Miz Pea

Yes, you will spend at least $15k to get the vessel up to snuff, if you do much of the work yourself.

If it were me, I would offer the seller $10k - one-third of his asking price.

I agree. Its looks like a good boat. $10k is generous, and IMHO the seller will eagerly accept.

[keelbolts]

It’s a boat...

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That's a nice one. And I like the info on the engine too. Did anyone else notice the chain plate on the stern for a drogue? Someone had some plans for that boat, though I might beef up that chain plate a bit.
Still waiting on the engine info on the OP's boat. That's the deal breaker or maker in my book.

Rebuilt engine usually means they changed the oil. Oil AND filter change translates to re-manufactured engine.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

So I'm in Rio Dulce, Guatemala to look at a Pearson 365 cutter.

1981 Pearson 365 Cutter Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yesterday it failed survey:
Rigging needs to be replaced. $6000
A couple fuel leaks
Water ingress through a chainplate (assume it can be rebedded during rigging)
bonding system not functional
Shaft drive needs alignment
Water leak through the quadrant steering
Varnish is too far gone. It needs to be taken back to the wood. $1000
Needs a new bimini $1000
Radar not functioning

Questionable
chartplotter works but shows discoloration
halfway installed watermarker
Sails have been left on when absent. There is a light green moss on the headsail and most halyards.
Water left in tanks when absent.

This is starting to look pretty grim.

Surveyor said I'd spend $15k to get it up to snuff. He said normally a boat this size and this price it would be a major project. He says that isn't the case for this boat so he kinda gave me the thumbs up if I want to spend the money.

Really it seems the last owner was delinquent (4years)

I also paid for haul out. The hull showed no osmosis.
The engine fired right up and had some smoke. I'm having an engine survey done tomorrow.

Wondering if I should continue with purchase. Not looking for a yes or no but things I should consider.

Any used vessel will require a re-fit. Consider a vessel that will not require as much work, at a fair price. Unless the asking price is bargain-basement, do you want to work on a boat, or sail it?

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by skipmac

The 42' Pearsons are nice boats, if you can get around having a giant hole in the keel. [emoji3]

I assume your referring to the deep bilge??? Considering purchase of a 424 ketch in Massachusetts.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

I assume your referring to the deep bilge??? Considering purchase of a 424 ketch in Massachusetts.

Exactly. The big sump, hollow or whatever it is that leaves the upper/aft third of the lead keel hollow.

As far as I know there's only minor downsides to this. Haven't heard of it being a serious weak point, no keels breaking off at that point in a grounding but when hauling the blocking should be under the leading and trailing edges of the keel, NOT in the middle under the hollow.

You should check that closely when surveying a new boat just in case.

Since I've pretty much taken the interior of my Pearson apart and put it back together I know most of the potential trouble spots. Would be glad to pass along any info if interested. Just send me a PM.

Skip

[LLCoolDave]

Engine survey went very well. It's a westerbeke 40 based on a perkins 4-108. No water or coolant in the oil. The belt needs tightening. Two hydraulic lines for the transmission have hoses designed for water so those need to be changed. The two fuel lines that are leaking are easily accessible and there parts available locally. Overall the mechanic said it was running great for its age. Transmission and vdrive are working great.

[MartinR]

Good engine! Cheap, easily available spares and lives forever. Personally I like this boat. I am sure you can negotiate a little on the price, having the survey report.

[Rising Tide]

As someone who is looking for a boat, I would like to thank you for posting this. I understand there is exaggeration in marketing but this really drives home there is outright dishonesty. This is a reality check. I do have a few comments.

From an economics standpoint, the price should not change whether or not you can do the work. The repairs cost a certain amount and how they are done does not matter. Do not pay more than the boat is worth. You have a value also.

I agree with a previous poster the boat is worth about $10,000. I also agree you will find more issues than the ones in the survey. A 1981 boat is a 1981 boat. Even in perfect condition you are looking at much maintenance going forward.

One of the 7 stages of the sales process is commitment. If you bought a plane ticket to Guatemala for a $36,000 boat, you are now committed. The salesperson knows you have a vested interest. This is why he posted such a come-on ad. Fly to GM and then he is reeling you in. I have seen more even-handed ads, where the broker may say "needs some work." I would not trust a thing the broker says, in fact would assume everything he says is untrue.

I do not understand why many used boats do have a negative value. But if I were you, I would flip the script. Offer $10,000 cash and tell the broker you are going to walk, fly home and never come back. You have the upper hand. This boat is totally replaceable.

Good luck, I understand this is hard and wish you well.
John