Experts, Have Fun at My Expense

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Well, not really. Back when I was selling boats I listed a 75' monohull with a retractable keel. The owner/designer set up up so he could beach the boat and did so regularly. He pulled the boat rigtht up to the beach and dropped off the bow onto dry sand. Forget exactly but with the keel down the draft was around 8-9'. Never sailed in the boat but the owner claimed windward performance was quite good.

LOL..That ain't beaching a boat that's building a bridge..

Seriously though beaching the bow would not be to difficult around the PNW in a lot of places so I can see that being done...we do it all the time with the SeaRay..but what a pain getting back on the bow let alone off of it.. ...and then the worry of broaching to the beach sort of takes the peaceful carefreeness out of the beach experience anyway....naw a dingy makes a far better landing craft any day...don't worry about a boats beaching qualities its insignificant in reality for all but the EU boats with the appendages and the need for it.

We have many ,many anchorages here where a 100' row to shore or less is the norm...rowing gives you something different to do for the day.

[hpeer]

Alas, the deal on the 43' aluminum schooner fell through. While the boat had much to recommend it there were some issues which would preclude me from feeling comfortable doing an open water voyage. Others may feel differently. We only uncovered these matters during sea trial. I don't think the owner or broker were being false, they were simply not aware of what I regard as limitations.

We went with this boat in the first place because it had some very nice features.
1 - It is essentially a brand new boat, not truly finished.
2 - The pilot house is wonderful.
3 - Shoal draft with a very efficient keel design.
4 - Potentially the ability to sail very simply by one person.

I was less enthused with the rig and never got far enough along to try it out so that remains a question.

In my opinion I would feel OK with the boat if I were to stay in protected waters. The Owner feels differently and I will let it rest there.

Now we are on to our Plan B boat.

After this deal fell through we looked at a couple of other alloy boats in Florida in our price range. None were suitable for various reasons. We did find one that was enticing, a Trisalu 37, but it required more work than we were willing to invest. There is a Trisbaltique in Martinique that holds some potential, but I don't know we are up to going that distance.

Unless we find something else very quickly we will likely make offer on our No. 2 boat, the Pape.

Our ideal boat would be an Ovni. I understand the Pape is very far from an Ovni in many respects, but most of all in price. Yet there are aspects of the Pape that are attractive. Rugged hull, sea kindly, affordable, newer engine, here.

To be continued, more quickly than the last time I hope.

[Curmudgeon]

Frankly I would give up on aluminum unless you can go over 140K. As for steel, well, apart from the potential corrosion problems, that Alan Pape weighs 44,000 pounds.

[jkleins]

Can you tell us more about what you found to be worrisome. It looks like it would be easy to handle and, if anything, safer offshore then a more traditional rig. What did you feel that made you uncomfortable at sea trial?

Jim

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by jkleins

Can you tell us more about what you found to be worrisome. It looks like it would be easy to handle and, if anything, safer offshore then a more traditional rig. What did you feel that made you uncomfortable at sea trial?

Jim

Jim,

Never got to a real sea trial, only a little cruise around the bay.

My concerns came from a combination of two things. I was somewhat concerned with the welds. As this is a new boat, and a one-of-a-kind with no history, it has never been "tested." With my limited experience I did not want to take on trying out an untried hull that to my eye was a bit light.

While we will initially fool around the Chesapeake we want a boat that can go to North. I have a 33' steel boat in Newfoundland already and have seen bergs in mid-July. Bergs sort of "rot" and give off "growlers" and "bergy bits" which can be daunting. Hence our desire for a metal hull.

The boat is still for sale and others may have a very different appreciation for her. The Owner and Broker were good people to deal with. The surveyor, Ed Rowe, did an excellent job. However, in the end, the decision was mine alone. Others would find differently.

I think she will be a "find" for the right person.

[hpeer]

Bringing things up to date, we have (finally) given up on finding an aluminum hulled boat in our price range. That was a bit of a struggle as there do seem to be some out there that may work. But after the last experience we decided to stay closer to home and go more conservative.

The alloy boats we found were a) good design with some issues, b) beautiful execution of an unsuitable design or c) good design and execution but not well kept after and suffering deterioration.

So we returned to our old short list in the first post here. The Pape is close and appears to be a solid platform. Clearly she is very different from the last boat we looked at but I believe we will sleep much better with her. She is also a much simpler boat with fewer systems to break down. On the other hand she is much older.

One of the things that always concerned me about the alloy boat was the freeboard and relatively light displacement. My wife is prone to sea sickness and I feared that combination would significantly detract from her pleasure. Ted Brewer, who we consulted with (great guy) was far less concerned. I must say that on many things Ted got it right. On the little sea trial we did we had 11 knots broadside and the boat tracked well under power. The keel worked well. Perhaps my fears are unfounded, now we will never know.

My wife liked the idea of a shoal and fast boat but I don't think she appreciated the ride. This alternative boat will not be as fast, it will not be as shoal, but I do think we will enjoy it more if she stays a nice shade of pink vs. slime green. Time will tell if we made a good choice.

[danielgoldberg]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Never got to a real sea trial, only a little cruise around the bay.

My concerns came from a combination of two things. I was somewhat concerned with the welds. As this is a new boat, and a one-of-a-kind with no history, it has never been "tested." With my limited experience I did not want to take on trying out an untried hull that to my eye was a bit light.

Just curious, and not at all being critical, but how is it that you came to learn these things only after the limited sea trial? Seems to me these are things you could have figured out upon your first inspection, no?

[hpeer]

The limited sea trial had nothing to do with it. The boat performed well. I wish I had noted these issues when I first saw the boat, but I didn't. But we live far away and had only one visit to the boat before making an offer and going to survey.

It is a custom boat with no reputation, good or bad. So when you are looking you have to look at everything, and it takes time.

Could I have figured it out at the first visit? Perhaps if I had been more observant I would have gotten a clue that there were problems. Then I would have had to educate myself, as I eventually did.

On the other hand it really was having a good surveyor who drug me through the boat and showed me what he found that made the difference.
It's not that the boat is no good, it just doesn't inspire the confidence I need if we are to eventually make ocean passages.

[jkleins]

Thanks for that. What did the surveyor see that tipped him off? I think that judging the quality of a hull construction in a already built boat, of any material, would be very tough. It is probably why the one-off custom boats seem to sell from less in general then the production boats. What are you in the market for now?

Jim

[hpeer]

The welds seemed light for an off shore boat.

After chasing around after a few other aluminum boats with no success we have reverted back to our #1 steel choice, the Pape. We have made an offer.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by hpeer

She wants: Aluminum, pilot house, hot water shower, beachable, <$140,000
He wants: Her to go to the far ends of the earth and her to pay for the boat.
(Neither wants glass)
She, who gets seasick in a swell - 43 Aluminum schooner
He. who is afraid of dying ashore - 44 Steel Pape

You are a master of diplomacy, and a great tactician. Wonderful to see a master at work.
I salute you!!

[hpeer]

You know, I must now, and forever more, keep her from this thread or I am TOAST!

Thanks.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by hpeer

You know, I must now, and forever more, keep her from this thread or I am TOAST!

Thanks.

Your right. "The Google" could be your enemy here.

Jim

[S&S]

The Pape really seems like the better offshore boat. Missing out on the schooner may be a "happy coincidence".

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by S&S

The Pape really seems like the better offshore boat. Missing out on the schooner may be a "happy coincidence".

I agree, but if I were sailing that Alan Pape, I would probably have demolished a few fuel docks already. My guess is that boat is going to be a bear maneuvering in close quarters, and reverse will be an adventure. If you hit something, that something will go "crunch."