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Old 08-04-2016, 11:18   #46
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

In a way you are right Greg ; that is the challenge ..the niche below 50 and above 35 =40

not wider than 6.5 mtr and lightly build ......real performer if not loaded and if loaded still fast from a cruiser perspective.

Priced below the Neel 45.

Not a French product but Slovenian or Croatian.....

Thoughts?
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:42   #47
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

A performance 40'+ tri with less than 6.5m beam? Sounds like you'd be better off with a cat.


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Old 08-04-2016, 11:56   #48
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

why that?

Better of with a cat due to with? The average with of a cat of 40' is 7 meter or just less or just more.

Do not understand your motivation
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:07   #49
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

My motivation? Reality. If the average width of a 40' cat is 7m, what do you suppose the average width of a 40'+ performance tri is?
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:34   #50
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

NON performance tri ; doing 15 to 18 max

7 meter max needed

So why a cat?
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:40   #51
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

Good luck with that. If your convinced it's doable, I'd go hire a naval architect rather than trying to convince people on an Internet forum. Just sayin'........
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Old 08-04-2016, 12:45   #52
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

Will do so; AM NOT CONVINCING PEOPLE JUST LEARNING FROM THEM
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Old 08-04-2016, 15:12   #53
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

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Originally Posted by andreavanduyn View Post
In a way you are right Greg ; that is the challenge ..the niche below 50 and above 35 =40

not wider than 6.5 mtr and lightly build ......real performer if not loaded and if loaded still fast from a cruiser perspective.

Priced below the Neel 45.

Not a French product but Slovenian or Croatian.....

Thoughts?
Um, I don't think you can built a performance tri that's 21' X 40' It just wouldn't work very well. That's roughly a ratio of 1:2 which would be a very underpowered boat.

By comparison:
ORMA 60 is 1:1
Paradox (detuned ORMA) 3:4
IDEC3 3:4
MOD 70 4:5
Hammerhead 54 3:5
Juniper 2 3:5

Basically there is a direct correlation between width and power, and this between width and speed. The ORMA 60's for instance are arguably faster than the MOD 70's, but the 60's were retired because they were too powerful and fragile to survive open ocean sailing.

Scaling a trimaran back to 1:2 is going to leave you with anemic performance. Sure it will be a trimaran in name, but it won't be all that fast. For a 45'trimaran I think you need to assume a beam of at least 27' and probably 30' would be better.
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Old 08-04-2016, 19:13   #54
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

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Just to be clear (from a responce to my post). You cannot get close to as much living space in a performance 50' as you have in a 50' monohull. Length for length you will have the most interior room in a Cat, then a monohull, then a trimaran.

Generally to match a cat the monohull needs to be about 50% longer, I have no idea for a trimaran however. To match a 40' mono would probably require something on the order of a 70' trimaran, up until the addition of a bridge deck (ala Neel) starts to work.

As for the Neel, I like them, and am curious about them, but nothing I have seen so far indicates they are any faster than a production cat. Somewhere around the same speeds as a faster Lagoon design.
..
Cats have more space than monohulls but the typically a modern cruising monohull with the double of a length of a cat will have a much bigger interior.
A Lagoon 40 has 7.25m beam, a 80ft monohull will have typically around 6m. The interior volume is not only considerably bigger has the monohull has a more usable interior space with less losses due to two narrow bows on the cat.

Regarding the Neel 45 he did not only beat all cats on the last ARC, including 2 Outremer 51 as it arrived among the fastest 60/50 foot cruiser racers on the racing division.

That was a special one, a racing version with a bigger mast, a lighter interior and it seems a central centerboard. I would say that a Lagoon 450 would not be able to do that.
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Old 08-04-2016, 19:25   #55
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

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Why not a Dragonfly 35?

They make one fitted out for cruising for realistic money.

The OP did not mention what the boat would be used for, so I think we're flailing around a bit here. But if it's cruising two-up with minimal gear, without ocean crossing duty, it could work.

The retractable amas are a huge boon for European waters, where marina berths for multihulls is a PITA and can be expensive.
I don't know what you call realistic money but I find it very expensive for the small interior that if offers and the OP specifically said that he wanted a boat for two couples to cruise. Not enough space on the Dragonfly 35.

I love the boat and the finish but almost half a million dollars for a boat with the interior size of a 30ft monohull is not realistic for me, it will be certainly for others.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:53   #56
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

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Is "That" the schooner or ketch tri over by Bruno's?
...
Yes, over there in derelict old boat area. There is a big old cat over there too with major problems. Both have been rotting away for years.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:13   #57
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Re: Even mono sailors advise is appreciated

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Originally Posted by andreavanduyn View Post
In a way you are right Greg ; that is the challenge ..the niche below 50 and above 35 =40

not wider than 6.5 mtr and lightly build ......real performer if not loaded and if loaded still fast from a cruiser perspective.

Priced below the Neel 45.

Not a French product but Slovenian or Croatian.....

Thoughts?
So post a link and pictures to know about what you are talking about.

Beam and weight are the basis of stability on a multihull. If you have a 40ft tri with only 6.5m beam than it has to be heavy for stability and heavy means slow.

For comparison in what regards beam, a Dragonfly 32 has 8m beam and a 28fter 6.5m beam.
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