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Old 17-11-2015, 19:22   #16
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

Often thought something like a fender board would make a perfect emergency rudder with some suitable pintles, or even a wharram style rope hinge.

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Old 19-09-2016, 14:15   #17
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

> S&S swan36 emergency rudder

my 36 "doe" is hull number 10. Since 1985, when I bought her in
Netherlands for a trip to Greece, I have lost track of our mileage
together: somewhere in excess of 75 thousand miles, including 5
trans-Atlantics and a circumnavigation. She is tiller steered; like
you, we use a windvane. The rudder has never given any trouble.

The rudder blade is a foam sandwich construction, the rudder halves 8mm
GRP. The rudder shaft is 32mm dia solid s.s., fitted with 2 pairs of
s.s. arms approx 350mm long, welded onto the shaft, and angling down and
back to squeeze the blade between them. Each pair is bolted together
through the rudder with 5 8mm bolts. It is like a young koala bear
clasping her mother with arms and legs. The lower end of the rudder
shaft turns in a cast bronze shoe at the bottom of the half skeg, also
bolted on with 5 8mm bolts.

this construction is very strong. The lower end of the rudder is well
above the bottom of the keel. It is hard to imagine an event causing
significant damage to the rudder, that does not rip open the after end
of the boat, and sink her.

in 1988, prior to our first trans-Atlantic voyage, we found serious
corrosion in and around the weld attaching the upper pair of arms to the
shaft. Especially if your boat is an early one, I would suggest you
look carefully at that area, grinding away some GRP if needed to get a
good look. During our replacement of the shaft we learned the details
in paragraph 2 above--removing the shoe was the hard part.

but if you insist on some emergency rudder setup, I would second 2
suggestions already made:

1. your windvane is a pendulum fin. If you immobilize the pendulum by
means of the steering ropes somehow rigidly fastened to the
boat--cockpit cleats, perhaps--then by removing the wind vane, and
manually manipulating its attachment to the pendulum, you can rotate the
pendulum either port or starboard. Because it is not free to swing up
to the side, it will provide side force at the stern. Perhaps it is
enough.

2. your sternrail has a vertical member in the middle: very strong, 27mm
diameter by 2.5mm wall, attached at the bottom to a significant piece of
teak and the afterdeck by 4 8mm bolts. To your spinnaker pole, attach
some sort of paddle, lash the pole to the sternrail, and then, like the
old timers, use this as a sweep.
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Old 19-09-2016, 15:35   #18
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

swan36doe,

Really good post, nicely formatted, rich in information. Thanks.

Ann
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Old 20-09-2016, 13:09   #19
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

swan36doe:

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you have done a lot of sailing on your swan.

I pretty much agree with all you have said in your post.

Fortunately about 2 years before I bought Black Rose the previous owner completely rebuilt the rudder and it is in great shape.

I agree the construction is very strong and the fact that the rudder is substantially shorter than the keel is very useful and would limit the likelihood of breaking a rudder.

After this thread and a similar thread in S&S swan forum I have the parts needed to use the monitor wind vane as an emergency rudder which requires a limited amount of hardware.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.
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Old 20-09-2016, 13:48   #20
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

Well. Your rudder was no doubt well built and strong when it was built. But how old it is now?

Nothing lasts forever and since one cannot inspect the innards of a rudder, often the best take to avoid any issues in any old boat is ... to build a new rudder.

Assuming your existing rudder 100% sound, your choice of emergency steering starts with deciding if you want a spare rudder (unlikely) an emergency rudder (likely) or else a steering device.

Your design is not easy to fit an emergency rudder on. If you already have a Monitor, I would investigate if the existing fittings of the Monitor could be used towards fitting an emergency rudder. Due to the known difficulties of fitting any emergency rudder in the open waters, you may want to have a look at cassette designs. These seem to be relatively easy to build, 'easy' to fit and known to work well. They are also easy to modify, should you discover your design calls for a mod.

Have fun tinkering.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cass...jKB40Q_AUICSgC

Cheers,
b.
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Old 20-09-2016, 19:43   #21
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/mrud.php


A monitor MRud might be the go on a nicely balanced boat like the s&s 36. Especially combined with a drogue.



Flemming wind vanes have a much simpler system that clamps onto the existing servo rudder, that could be homemade pretty easily. I'd be tempted to use plywood or alloy skins to streamlime the bigger rudder assembly.

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Old 21-09-2016, 06:18   #22
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

I remember reading somewhere that a yacht lost its rudder in the Atlantic I think. They found that a sweep over the stern did not work and they steered successfully with trailing warps.

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Old 21-09-2016, 07:03   #23
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

A Swan of that era is all nicely balanced while it has a rudder.

Once sans rudder, it will pivot round its short fin keel. They have short fins and short waterlines, without rudder they pivot just like any Bavaria does.

Very difficult to control without a tested emergency plan.

I would not rely on a Monitor MRUD. Not even on a Pacific Plus solution. Rudder emergencies tend to happen in bad weather. If you do want a solution, you want something proven and bomb proof.

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Old 19-01-2017, 08:06   #24
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Re: Emergency Rudder Materials for Swan 36

hi again

sorry about the delay, I just now jan 19th found your messages.

> It has a triangle shape name plate with a name and serial number on
> the from the mast about 3 feet above the deck.

that's the Proctor logo. My mast was also from Proctor: yellow/gold
anodized, internal halyards, 4 Barlow halyard winches. Very good mast.

I met #11 at Ibiza in 1986: teak deck, steering wheel, French ownership,
en route Brazil. Perhaps the galley was aft, with 3 midships berths
counting the pilot berth. Not 100% sure about that.

Irving and Lilley, Southampton, was original seller of my boat; perhaps
yours also.

tom lightbody
swan36/010 "doe"
swan36doe@gmail.com

ps. we determined "doe"s hull number backtracking through our knowing
the name the original owner gave the boat.
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