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19-06-2019, 17:47
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
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Re: Electric motor conversion
GrowleyMonster
Very good analysis, and I definitely agree with most of your comment. The only addition I would make is that the technology development will happen faster than most think. High voltage systems now being developed for EVs and manufactured in the hundreds of thousands will improve performance and drive down costs at a fast pace. These will need to be tailored to power levels and environments on boats, but it will happen. While it’s still for early adopters and not for the DIY or faint of heart, we’re at the start of the exponential rise in the s-curve in this development.
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19-06-2019, 17:57
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#47
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Electric motor conversion
2004 to 2009 Prius traction battery pack, 500V max.
2010 Prius traction battery max voltage 650V
Hybrid cars have run voltages deep into the triple digits for decades, there used of be a big concern that first responders would get killed left and right from those voltages, which of course hasn’t happened, all the high voltage cables on a Prius are bright orange to let people know to be careful around those.
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19-06-2019, 18:02
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,409
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Re: Electric motor conversion
I really don't understand the thinking if you change your mind motor to Electric and you still have to run your generator full-time and then you will add weight with more batteries, what have you really gain besides the slower underpowered boat with limited range
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19-06-2019, 18:05
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Yep, the HV cables on my boat are bright orange as well and carry a sense circuit that if it detects a loss of isolation, will blow a pyro fuse at the battery. You also have to consider thermal runaway for Li-ion (at any voltage actually not just HV batteries). The battery pack is built to withstand a module fire and has venting to drive any smoke/fumes overboard.
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19-06-2019, 18:22
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by motion30
I really don't understand the thinking if you change your mind motor to Electric and you still have to run your generator full-time and then you will add weight with more batteries, what have you really gain besides the slower underpowered boat with limited range
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I don’t hardly ever run the generator. I can motor for 2-3 hours off the batteries before they are depleted. The genset is used if I’m stuck out with no wind for more than a few hours and also if I’m on anchor or a mooring and want to run the A/C. The nice thing is I can run the generator for an hour and have enough charge in the batteries to run any electrical system I want for basically a full day or two. It’s like being in a slip with 30A service while on the hook. But in general I hardly ever have to run the genset as I’m often at a slip at the end of the day and can charge off shore power. As I mentioned before the whole set up is only about 200 kgs heavier than an equivalent diesel + generator set up needed to get not quite as good functionality. I think the keys that make this work is the high voltage that the batteries and motor operate and also the DC generator that can directly charge the HV batteries.
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19-06-2019, 19:53
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44 Ofshore
Posts: 2,842
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qmansailer
I don’t hardly ever run the generator. I can motor for 2-3 hours off the batteries before they are depleted. The genset is used if I’m stuck out with no wind for more than a few hours and also if I’m on anchor or a mooring and want to run the A/C. The nice thing is I can run the generator for an hour and have enough charge in the batteries to run any electrical system I want for basically a full day or two. It’s like being in a slip with 30A service while on the hook. But in general I hardly ever have to run the genset as I’m often at a slip at the end of the day and can charge off shore power. As I mentioned before the whole set up is only about 200 kgs heavier than an equivalent diesel + generator set up needed to get not quite as good functionality. I think the keys that make this work is the high voltage that the batteries and motor operate and also the DC generator that can directly charge the HV batteries.
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Your inverter... off the shelf, or did you have to DIY it? I haven't seen any 400v inverters.
__________________
GrowleyMonster
1979 Bruce Roberts Offshore 44, BRUTE FORCE
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19-06-2019, 20:15
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Yeah, all the HV stuff is way above my DIY skills. Here’s the inverter
https://www.belfuse.com/product/part...150-120-240-8G
It’s also a charger, but I didn’t use the charger functionality. Most of the system components were supplied by Torqeedo as part of their Deep Blue product line, so that limits some functionality based on what works with their software.
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20-06-2019, 00:13
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#53
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qmansailer
I don’t hardly ever run the generator. I can motor for 2-3 hours off the batteries before they are depleted. The genset is used if I’m stuck out with no wind for more than a few hours and also if I’m on anchor or a mooring and want to run the A/C. The nice thing is I can run the generator for an hour and have enough charge in the batteries to run any electrical system I want for basically a full day or two. It’s like being in a slip with 30A service while on the hook. But in general I hardly ever have to run the genset as I’m often at a slip at the end of the day and can charge off shore power. As I mentioned before the whole set up is only about 200 kgs heavier than an equivalent diesel + generator set up needed to get not quite as good functionality. I think the keys that make this work is the high voltage that the batteries and motor operate and also the DC generator that can directly charge the HV batteries.
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I am a pretty big hybrid sailboat skeptic, but this setup seems to be the best conceived one I've ever heard of. No magical thinking, no magical fuel savings, no underpowering, no undersizing of the generator.
Now that you've described your use case, it's clear how it makes sense for you. Using stored shore power primarily. This would be worth quite a bit of cost and weight to a lot of people. I guess you'll never pay for it with saved diesel, but silent electric running would be priceless. But the other saving which MIGHT pay for the setup eventually is the saving of engine hours -- amortization, and maintenance cost.
The big generator combined with lithium power also means you can store abundant power for on-board systems, with short generator runs, when off grid. You've eliminated the second diesel generator (your setup will not indeed be either heavier nor costlier than mine which has separate propulsion and generator engines).
I like it I think a lot of people would be interested in technical details, and photos of the build.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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20-06-2019, 02:35
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Annapolis MD
Boat: Building a Max Cruise 44 hybrid electric cat
Posts: 3,195
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qmansailer
Most of the system components were supplied by Torqeedo as part of their Deep Blue product line, so that limits some functionality based on what works with their software.
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What components are coming from Torqeedo? I think most of us thought it was a system repurposed from a car, and not a more plug and play system from Torqeedo. It sounds like a very workable system when price comes down.
I see us personally decade (s?) away from getting rid of our diesel, but it's great to see people going down this path.
Love the boat choice too
Matt
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02-03-2020, 21:50
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sydney
Boat: Custom 47 Ketch
Posts: 17
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Re: Electric motor conversion
10 years from now there's going to be buttloads of electric vehicle parts at wreckers all over the world.
When parts become more available and less expensive I'm getting me some!
I'm not going to re-power with another Diesel, I'm going to leave the old banger in place and add an electric system straight on to a spare bit of prop shaft.
If I can get a good 4 hours of battery life from installing electric vehicle equipment then maybe one day I'll have my old diesel and fuel tanks removed and have a whole new cabin!
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02-03-2020, 23:16
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44 Ofshore
Posts: 2,842
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds.brad
10 years from now there's going to be buttloads of electric vehicle parts at wreckers all over the world.
When parts become more available and less expensive I'm getting me some!
I'm not going to re-power with another Diesel, I'm going to leave the old banger in place and add an electric system straight on to a spare bit of prop shaft.
If I can get a good 4 hours of battery life from installing electric vehicle equipment then maybe one day I'll have my old diesel and fuel tanks removed and have a whole new cabin!
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Why not leave the diesel in place, as long as it runs? You can install pillow block bearings and a pulley on the prop shaft, and drive it with a belt from an electric motor. Depending on your transmission. Consult your mechanic. Anyway with the diesel stopped and transmission neutral, the electric motor turns the prop shaft, or charges your batteries under sail if regen is on. With the diesel running, it turns the prop shaft and turns the electric motor which charges the batteries if regen is on. You get the economy, instant on with no warmup, and quiet operation (and NO minimum idle speed) of the electric when desired, and the long range of the diesel when needed. Add enough solar and you reduce your dependence on the diesel.
Don't get rid of the diesel until it is dead and not worth rebuilding. Then you can switch to pure electric or solar electric. That's my suggestion.
__________________
GrowleyMonster
1979 Bruce Roberts Offshore 44, BRUTE FORCE
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08-03-2020, 22:28
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sydney
Boat: Custom 47 Ketch
Posts: 17
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Re: Electric motor conversion
I'm not going to get rid of the diesel, I'll create a hybrid set up and then remove the diesel a couple of years after the electric system has proven itself.
:-)
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09-03-2020, 00:06
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#58
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,160
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by reynolds.brad
I'm not going to get rid of the diesel, I'll create a hybrid set up and then remove the diesel a couple of years after the electric system has proven itself.
:-)
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Yep, perhaps in 2050...
good luck with the conversion.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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09-03-2020, 21:20
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: 50' aluminium power cat
Posts: 296
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster
Why not leave the diesel in place, as long as it runs? You can install pillow block bearings and a pulley on the prop shaft, and drive it with a belt from an electric motor. Depending on your transmission. Consult your mechanic. Anyway with the diesel stopped and transmission neutral, the electric motor turns the prop shaft, or charges your batteries under sail if regen is on. With the diesel running, it turns the prop shaft and turns the electric motor which charges the batteries if regen is on. You get the economy, instant on with no warmup, and quiet operation (and NO minimum idle speed) of the electric when desired, and the long range of the diesel when needed. Add enough solar and you reduce your dependence on the diesel.
Don't get rid of the diesel until it is dead and not worth rebuilding. Then you can switch to pure electric or solar electric. That's my suggestion.
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I thought I'd patented that idea... about 100 years ago . That's exactly what we're planning.
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09-03-2020, 21:24
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sydney
Boat: Custom 47 Ketch
Posts: 17
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Re: Electric motor conversion
Like it!
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