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Old 18-06-2019, 15:15   #1
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Angry Dumb or screwed or both??

I am under contract
In the time from 1 st viewing to
actually signing I asked and received
Repeated assurances that I could come
back aboard and dig out all bilges and
storage areas and do my own inspection
Prior to survey to be able to make note of
Areas of concern or to ask questions about
potential issues. Two short days was ok by broker
We signed, this request was not in the contract.

Then couple weeks passes working to set
dates for said personal inspection
Broker states not possible without owner present.
I think great to get questions answered.
Only time avail for owners is two days before
Sea-trial and survey. I’d like more time to mull
But ok. Now a week before survey owner does
not want to do any inspections before survey.
Stating thru broker that they will spend several
days if we want after we accept the boat from
survey. Good part is boat comes with a tone
of extras. Bad part nothing is accessible I don’t
see being able to tear this boat apart for
survey and get it done right. After I accept the
survey I am locked in. Wife is inclined to let it ride
I have just seen majors missed by “good” surveyors ?????
I love the forum
Thanks in advance
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Old 18-06-2019, 15:21   #2
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

The surveyor works for you.



He can request that ALL of the lockers must be emptied. Perfectly reasonable.



There doesn't have to be a huge rush to approve the survey. In fact, I'm sure you could tell the surveyor you do not want to see his report for X days.
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Old 18-06-2019, 15:29   #3
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

In a typical purchase contract the buyer can back out based on anything in the survey. If the survey states that areas could not be adequately inspected, you are free to back out based on that. So no you aren't screwed. You are just gonna have to decide if the boat is for you after the inspections.
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Old 18-06-2019, 16:10   #4
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

I hope you are there on the day of the survey to help empty all the lockers. Its a pain in the backside when you survey a boat that is full of stuff. I remember one yacht I surveyed there was one locker that was full of the guys wifes lingerie. I removed it all and sure enough in the back of the locker was some broken fiberglass tabbing and cracked bulkhead. Its not really my comfort zone to be handling some strangers underwear but if I had not removed it I could have easily missed that issue.
The worst with surveying a boat like that is there is really no room to put anything. So you end up double handling everything.

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Old 18-06-2019, 16:11   #5
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

You're neither.

Sales agent here....sounds like you already know that a personal inspection is not a standard contingency for a boat sale, outside of a typical boat showing. You obviously liked what you saw previously if you were under contract. It seems like you may be experiencing a little transaction anxiety, which is pretty normal for a big purchase.

Honestly ask yourself...what do you think you will find that a licensed, experienced, surveyor, with the right tools will miss?

In reality, there is no obligation for the seller to allow you back on board except for the sea trial and survey. Further, there is no protection for the current owner for any mess or damage that may result from a personal inspection, especially as you seem to want to do so without the owner on board. Personally, I would also INSIST upon being present on my boat, that I am liable for, if anyone planned to perform an inspection of any kind, beyond a standard sales showing.

In short, your request to perform your own survey/inspection is a little odd, and their refusal to accommodate you is not surprising. Especially as you said, it is not included in your contract.

The good news is, it doesn't sound like you are dumb or screwed. You just need a good referral for a great surveyor in your area, which I'm sure the forum, or your reputable broker can provide for you.

Hire a reputable surveyor and trust the process, hopefully this will alleviate your concerns. It doesn't sound like you are locked into the the purchase yet, you can decline the purchase if you don't like the way the boat runs during sea trial and if anything shows up at survey. I usually request 5 days to review the surveyor report thoroughly in a purchase agreement.

Always keep in mind that boats are boats - they are in an environment that supports constant deterioration, and many things will ultimately require maintenance and replacing. Few boats are perfect and those that seem to be, are not for long.

I don't want to make any assumptions, but if you are concerned about few projects on a brokerage boat, then your purchasing budget may need some adjusting - keeping within realistic maintenance budget/schedule will also keep transaction anxiety and surprise breakdowns at bay.

Good luck with the new boat. Hope it is smooth sailing.
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Old 18-06-2019, 16:57   #6
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

I don’t believe most surveyors will empty out a locker to see what’s behind there
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:08   #7
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pirate Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

True, they write it off as not accessible..
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:10   #8
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK3Yachts View Post
Honestly ask yourself...what do you think you will find that a licensed, experienced, surveyor, with the right tools will miss?
.

Hahahaha! Are you serious?

Barnaby Blatch, a respected surveyor around here with all the credentials, surveyed a boat for me. He referred to the bolted on lead keel as encapsulated with no keel bolts, something anyone with access to sailboatdata.com or two eyes in their head would disagree with immediately. You can even see a keel bolt head in one of his pictures of the freshwater tank.

He missed that the rear engine mounts were not actually bolted to the engine bed, they were just sitting there. Again, you can even see it in the photo he placed right above the paragraph about the well performed engine installation. He missed that the owner used it this way for a year and managed to damage the bronze stuffing box and shaft log as a result, although admittedly it took me until day 2 of ownership to recognize that detail.

He missed that the compression post bringing mast load from the deck to the hull was so corroded i was able to remove it for replacement BY KICKING IT.

There are good surveyors out there, and there are terrible surveyors out there.

Visiting your potential purchase, on your own without the distractions of other people, and letting your eyes and your mind calmly focus on what you are looking at, is very, very wise.
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:21   #9
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

I was able to look over my boat before I bought on my own for as long as I wanted.

My surveyor was not very good. I found much more than he ever did.
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:26   #10
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK3Yachts View Post
...Honestly ask yourself...what do you think you will find that a licensed, experienced, surveyor, with the right tools will miss? ....

Can we start a new thread? Without emptying the lockers, lots. Even so, lots. Boats are complex. I've never seen a survey that didn't miss important things, and that is not a criticism. It's tough work.

Yes, I would be there to help the surveyor, since that is too much to ask. I've done this. But I would be moving things under his direction, so that it was part of the survey.
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:28   #11
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

For me surveying is like a giant game of "Wheres Waldo", I have a fair idea of where all the faults will be but still things can get missed. I am only on the boat for 3 or 4 hours and like having the buyer there looking as well. Boats are complex and everyone is unique which can make it challenging some days when surveying.
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Old 18-06-2019, 17:29   #12
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
....... I remember one yacht I surveyed there was one locker that was full of the guys wifes lingerie. I removed it all and sure enough in the back of the locker was some broken fiberglass tabbing and cracked bulkhead. ............
As an aside, the lingerie could have well been placed there intentionally....especially if this was the only structural defect found!
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Old 18-06-2019, 20:27   #13
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

I've never had an issue asking for and getting a follow up comprehensive self-survey if I was interested enough to do one prior to spending $$ on a real survey. If an owner or a broker prevented me from doing one I'd walk away. There are many more boats for sale then there are willing and able buyers. Unless the boat is in Bristol shape and listed significantly under the FMV I just can't imagine a smart seller/broker not granting access to a qualified potential buyer. The tire kickers can and should be sifted through with the right questions and comments, if that's a concern.
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Old 19-06-2019, 08:54   #14
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

My surveyor empties every locker. I hire the best and truth be told, everyone misses something . Nature of the game. I would be there for the survey side by side so your'e helping, learning and seeing everything.
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Old 19-06-2019, 08:59   #15
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Re: Dumb or screwed or both??

Run, don't walk away from this boat. I can understand the owner has concerns about a stranger going through their possessions and possible theft, but the owner really needs to empty the boat as much as possible, prior to listing. If the boat sells, how long is the original owner going to require to remove their possessions?

Surveyors usually operate under time constraints. If on the hard, many refuse to go up the mast to fully inspect the rigging. Especially if the surveyor is solo; would you trust a complete stranger, often a sailing neophyte to safely haul you up a mast?
With the variety of boats available, the surveyor may be unaware of known faults of that particular model. Newer boats have a myriad of electronics and both DC and AC circuits, with wire runs being mostly hidden or behind cabinetry.

When we bought our 42' catamaran, we had it surveyed, but I also asked for and received permission to spend two days inspecting the boat myself. I found a number of minor faults, that would be potentially expensive to fix if a marine professional were contracted to perform the work. None had been identified in the survey.

Many owners, who don't live on their boats full-time, really don't know much about their boats or fail to see gradual deterioration of the boat. The surveyor can only see a limited amount of the boat. You need free and unlimited access to properly inspect the vessel; do you really want to rely on a quick survey or the previous owner's word when you and your family are a hundred miles offshore?
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