Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-07-2010, 17:17   #16
Guest
 
otherthan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 843
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
Shrouds go where ?
Does it have a Running Back Stay/s ?
2 lateral chainplates on each side of the boat

one chain plate at the bow, one chainplate 4 feet in front of the mast

at the rear the mast is cliped on each side of the stern railing

so the mast is fixed at 6 point altogether

all seems preaty solide!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bateau a papa 014.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	57.6 KB
ID:	17780   Click image for larger version

Name:	bateau a papa 009.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	17781  

__________________

__________________
otherthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2010, 18:48   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
I would guess that either this is one of the build variations mentioned on some web pages, or that boat was custom(ized) by the builder, or most likely, that sometime in the last 40 years, someone replaced the original mast with something "about this long" and the new mast was set up with double spreaders.

The builders *might* still have some information, if it was originally built that way.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2010, 19:23   #18
Registered User
 
Laidback's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobi View Post
one chainplate 4 feet in front of the mast
at the rear the mast is cliped on each side of the stern railing
Not so sure about the "back stays being clipped to each side of the stern railing" To repeat the question are these running backstays?
If they are not connected to chainplates, then how is the stern railing fixed to the boat???
__________________
Laidback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2010, 23:44   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 128
I am not completely sure if you're asking why this particular boat has double spreaders or if you asking why any boat would have double spreaders. If you're asking the latter. The reason is that double spreader make the rig (mast) stiffer. You could make it more complex than that, but that's it at the most basic level. The mast take bending moments and a large compression load. The rigging is designed to be tension members. Things are strong when built using tension. It's a good way to maximize the strength of materials.

Did that help?
__________________
Solosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2010, 23:46   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 128
I can see I need to proof read my replies a couple of times before hitting the return key. Boy that's difficult to read. Sorry about that.
__________________
Solosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2010, 00:40   #21
Registered User
 
Marksman's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kingston, Wa.
Boat: 1966 Buchan 37
Posts: 300
Aspect ratio

Two vs. single spreders alows the shrouds to be closer inboard, and so, closer sheeting angles on the genoa. The taller the rig (aka bigger the boat), the more this becomes important. As said earlier, on a boat in the size range to be able to carry single spreaders, doubles alow for lighter section mast section. As the boat and rig get bigger, you eventually must go to double or tripple to keep the shroud to mast angle at 12 deg. or more for stress conciderations. On smaller yachts, doubles give the advantage of lighter mast and tighter sheet angles at the expense of more complexity and parts to fail/replace/worry about.
__________________
Fred Guy
Maelstrom
Marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2010, 08:18   #22
Guest
 
otherthan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 843
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
Not so sure about the "back stays being clipped to each side of the stern railing" To repeat the question are these running backstays?
If they are not connected to chainplates, then how is the stern railing fixed to the boat???
yes running backstays!! sorry not only am I french but also new to sailboats, I didnt know what running backstays where.

heres a photo of Ting a Ling from sailboatdata, shes a similar boat to mine exept for the spreaders and wood cabine. I wanted to post a link but did not know how? hope this is ok.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	thompson_24_UK_photo.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	26.2 KB
ID:	17785  
__________________
otherthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2010, 09:25   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
The designer of a boat sometimes makes options available for "utility" use of the boat or "Racing" use. A taller or thinner rig as mentioned above makes for a more flexible racing boat. To keep the thinner and/or taller "mast in column," especially if racing sails are being used, more spreaders are needed. The designer put them there - assuming that the mast is original equipment.

"one chain plate at the bow, one chainplate 4 feet in front of the mast"
That chainplate 4 feet in front of the mast / between the bow chainplate and the mast means the boat was rigged as a "cutter" with a staysail. That is why you have two spreaders versus the normal sloop version with only one set of spreaders. You many not have the inner stay rigged - look at the leading edge of the mast in the vicinity of the upper spreaders and you may an attachment point for the inner forestay.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2010, 19:57   #24
Registered User
 
Laidback's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobi View Post
yes running backstays!! sorry not only am I french but also new to sailboats, I didn't know what running backstays were.

here's a photo of Ting a Ling from sailboatdata, shes a similar boat to mine except for the spreaders and wood cabin. I wanted to post a link but did not know how? hope this is ok.
Understand that you new to sail boats - there are so many nautical terms which are difficult to absorb in any language.

However, the importance of these 2 stays cannot be over emphasized.
Still we do not know how they are attached - suspect that they are NOT attached to the "stern rail" which by the way is usually constructed from thin walled stainless steel tubing similar the "Pulpit" at the front of the boat. The stern railing (sometimes called the "Pushpit") is not designed to terminate the stays that hold the mast up. Backstays would be attached to substantial chain plates in the hull of the boat. Running backstays are not designed to hold the mast up - but to tension the mast according to wind strength and direction.

The chain plate which is said to be only 4ft (1.2m) in front of the mast, is too close to the mast for it to be a staysail stay, if it's cutter rigged. This is a "babystay" Which is attached to the mast, at the front of the mast at the lower spreader, it is there to stiffen the lower part of the mast, by preventing it from flexing backwards, not a staysail stay.
This type of stay on a double spreader mast is to be found on the Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37.

If you can take a picture of the "backstay" where it terminates on the hull we can understand if it is safe or not.
__________________
Laidback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2010, 13:19   #25
Guest
 
otherthan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 843
Images: 3
sorry I have no better photos, will take some this week.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	boat 015.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	430.1 KB
ID:	17794   Click image for larger version

Name:	bateau a papa 018.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	17795  

__________________
otherthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2010, 14:03   #26
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,560
Images: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
The chain plate which is said to be only 4ft (1.2m) in front of the mast, is too close to the mast for it to be a staysail stay, if it's cutter rigged. This is a "babystay" Which is attached to the mast, at the front of the mast at the lower spreader, it is there to stiffen the lower part of the mast, by preventing it from flexing backwards, not a staysail stay. This type of stay on a double spreader mast is to be found on the Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37.
We have a baby stay for this very reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
If you can take a picture of the "backstay" where it terminates on the hull we can understand if it is safe or not.
I would have thought if they are running backstays the pushpit connection is to hold them out of the way, but also running backstays are normally adjustable aren't they?

Pete
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Babystay.JPG
Views:	104
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	17796  
__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2010, 18:54   #27
Registered User
 
Laidback's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 853
Hello Pete,
Exactly - thanks for your picture of an actual babystay, on a Moody 31.
-------------
The boat with 2 """Aft Stays""" what ever they are ? should have standing type backstays to hold the mast up - from one of the pictures there is no provision for a central chainplate on the transom. Therefore if there are no standing backstays and these are running backstays which are merely "clipped" on to aft corners of the transom/cockpit -- yes they would be adjustable. However, what happens if the windward stay under tension lets go? or comes unclipped ? There is a very good chance that the mast will come down.
Normally in an arrangement with only adjustable backstays - the stay is fixed to a substantial chainplate, while the adjustment section/component is above that part. Could be a simple block & tackle or a complex hydraulic pump unit.
Hopefully we will see.
__________________
Laidback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2010, 14:45   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1
The T24 came with several rig variants, one of which was a double spreader rig (I have one) giving a narrower sheeting angle - some rigs set a larger sail area than others too.
The aft shrouds do indeed connect to chain plates on the stern quarters which are mountings for the stern rails or "pushpit" -quite normal on the T24.
The deck and superstructure are marine ply and need to be kept under cover during the winter to prevent water penetration. Correctly set up, they are good to sail.
__________________

__________________
brizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PVC Spreaders? (For a 24'er?) pressuredrop Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 09-04-2010 08:11
Replacing My Spreaders? Steelshooter Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 27-11-2009 11:01
Repair to Spreaders mickmul Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 11 10-03-2008 03:47
Spreaders Islandmike Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 16-05-2006 13:14
Damaged spreaders irwinsailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 28-01-2004 18:13



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.