Does this Exist ? Little Advice, Please . . .

[SeaSeeker]

I have to jump in here and second all the above from osirussail.
Now I'd like to put in a word for the Cal 2-46. Big, airy, bright main salon; large aft cabin (in various configurations); walk in engine room; lots and lots of stowage; two heads; etc, etc. I live aboard mine six months a year and love it. Most are ketch rigged but there are sloops available or you can convert to sloop/cutter as I did (a little bit better windward performance). 5'5" draft is decent in the Carib. Something to watch for, they are older and most can have leakage problems around the salon portlights. Price WILL reflect condition! but they are basically very sound and well built boats, take a look at one, I think you'll be impressed.

Don

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Go look at boats then.

Its no use asking us. Half the forum will tell you that you will die in one sort of boat and the other half the forum will tell you thqat your boat wont move.

So I don't think we are any help at all

HA HA!...Your going to poke your eye out there kid...

[Capt Phil]

One of the most comfortable boats (sail) I ever owned was a Transpac 49... very roomy below, large aft cabin, great engine access, nicely set up nav station, large top loading fridge and freezer set up, nice accommodations forward for guests/crew, ketch rig, reasonably priced. Downside was wooden spars, a little slow, ports leaked and needed rebedding. Bought for about $90K and sold for $130K after a fair bit of TLC sweat equity and electronics in to her. Knowing what I know now, I'd buy her again... cheers, CP

[Stillraining]

Wow I really like those 49's...never heard of them before....did they make a shoal draft model?

PS: Some day you have to teach me how to make money on boats..

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- stay away from anything Raymarine/Raytheon. The European instrument makers are mainstream with stuff that keeps on working. More expensive but you will bless the day you opted for a good autopilot.
.

There's a boat I intend looking at when my house sells that has Raytheon everything... autopilot, windspeed/direction, log, depth, radar... the lot.

I know nothing about Raytheon, but I thought Raymarine was supposed to have quite a good name...
Could you expand on your comment about both above?

Vic

[Ruf361]

osirissail your post was awesome. Isnt anything over 42 going to be a little rough to single hand? I was, maybe arbitrarily, using 42 as a cap for single handing.

WARNING DUMB QUESTION FOLLOWS

Can you convert a Ketch to something other than a Ketch or is the whole 2 mast thing a pretty permanent fixture?

Stillraining check your PM's please.

Also, after further reading, i do not think a ketch is a bad idea. Why are they so much cheaper than all other rigs?

[Capt Phil]

StillRaining... just buy it right and have a willing partner with a strong nesting instinct to make it a home. Spent many weeks sanding, varnishing and rebedding ports, etc. She became the authority on varnish work in the marina and was constantly advising other folks on prep work, etc. Don't believe that the Transpac 49 came in shoal draft. She is full keel with cutaway forefoot. Nice entry so very comfortable sea boat.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Ruf361

WARNING DUMB QUESTION FOLLOWS

Can you convert a Ketch to something other than a Ketch or is the whole 2 mast thing a pretty permanent fixture?


Also, after further reading, i do not think a ketch is a bad idea. Why are they so much cheaper than all other rigs?

We sailed our ketch for about 6 months without the mizzen. it would sail fine on all points except close hauled, that's where the lee helm was apparent. The reason for this is ketchs have the main mast stepped more fwd than sloops, this moves the center of effort fwd causing the headsail to pull the bow down more so than a sloop. The mizzen is used to balance out the force of the headsail. An allied seawind cutter has the mast stepped roughly 3' aft of the ketch step point, not a trivial thing to change. Technically doable, but not practicable. I'd assume that the ketch rigged boats are less modern hence less desirable to the "modern" buyer, The only downside we've experienced is the addition of rigging (both running and standing) but it's a great place to put a wind generator and really balances out the boat well. As an aside the abilty to drop the main and sail with mizzen and jib allows for even more fine tuning of sail power vs. wind speed.

[Ruf361]

i am assuming the cost goes up but not enough to cancel them out. Just seems you can get great CC Ketch rigged Water boats">blue water boats in the 40ft range for very cheap.

[Sailmonkey]

on a 40' boat consider the mizzen like having the rig of another 20'-25' boat. We re-rigged ours less expensivly than I can re-rig my catamaran mast (31' carbon stick). I personally think the costs balance out for sails, our main is smaller hence cheaper, but the mizzen exists, so in the end it's near a wash for larger main alone vs smaller main+mizzen.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

. . . I know nothing about Raytheon, but I thought Raymarine was supposed to have quite a good name...
Could you expand on your comment about both above?
Vic

I used to sell Raytheon/Raymarine in my boat supply/repair business because they gave dealers a 60% discount so I could give a small discount to the end customer and still make a decent profit. Which is why you see the units on most all boats. By comparison the European instruments are pricey on their own due to currency exchange and the discounts rarely exceeded 25%.
- - You can research the history of Raymarine and it reputation with cruisers versus other brands on the internets various cruising forums.
- - The "big boys" on the racers do not use Raymarine as they need stuff that works and keeps on working.
- - As a singlehander, reliable electronics and electrics is priority one as they take the place of an additional crewmember. I singlehanded and still do, a 60 ft ketch without any difficulty. Even when other people are on board the boat still operates itself and all the muscle needed is only to raise the sails and trim them. Everything can be done from inside the cockpit, which is another must for safe single-handing. Raising, trimming, reefing, and lowering is all done from inside the cockpit with no need to go out on deck under normal conditions.
- - Using 10oz dacron sails, even reefing is rarely needed unless the winds get over 50 kts. With a vang and traveler I can twist open the sails and dump 50% or more of their power without having to lower them. However the headsail must be brought in so I have a Profurl roller-reefing system which has never failed even when actually rolling in the headsail in a 50kts gale.
- - Single-handing is not difficult in any size boat so long as you plan and rig the boat so that you are using your brain instead of your muscles, which is what machines are made for. A 30ft all-manual sailboat is on the boarder of being un-safe for single-handing. Remember Ellen McArthur the 20-something English girl single-handed a 75 foot racing yacht around the world by herself. I figure if a young Brit girl can do that I can certainly handle a 60ft ketch that sails like a barge. See: Ellen MacArthur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- - As to converting a ketch to a sloop - it really is not advisable as the locations of the masts relative to the balance of the boat is significantly different. Relocating a main mast is not a simple job.
- - Ketches tend to have shorter rigs and are not as efficient as tall rig sloops when not using the mizzen. Only on beam reaches and downwind do I use the mizzen. Otherwise it has no effective power output as the wind - by the time it gets past the foresail and mainsail is basically aligned with the axis of the boat.

- - As to size of the boat, single-handing is not a determinant if the boat is rigged/set up for single-handing. So that leaves the size determined by what you plan to do with the boat. The boat will become your "first mistress" and size of the boat will determine if their is room for an additional "mistress(es)."

[Ruf361]

great post as always osirissail, thank you for the info. I puttered around yesterday with a broker and hopped on a few boats just to get an idea of space. Remember I liveaboard a 42 Sportsfish, so I haven’t spent too much time on sail boats and wanted to compare the space.

I checked out a 38ft Manta Cat that had been poorly cared for and a really old 37ft hunter than i think the owner will all but give away.

I don’t think I would purchase either of these boats, but was good just to get orientated with them and have a better idea of layouts.

This weekend or the following weekend i have been invited to sail with some friends, i am really looking forward to that!

[osirissail]

Don't overlook the Hunter. They are like Chevrolets, can be had economically, great for learning on, and mainstream so parts and stuff are available. Also great for Bahamas and Caribbean gunkholing which really does not require and serious ocean passages. Most of the way is day hops.
- - If you can really get it for "next to nothing" and it is in reasonable shape, it might be a boat to "wet your whistle" on and learn and have fun. Then when you are ready for serious offshore stuff move on to a good blue water boat.

[Ruf361]

thats good advice, but I will most likely be living on the boat that i buy full time, and the i dont think the hunter would fit my living needs. But i do agree it would bea great learning boat, and probably not a bad investment. everything on it needs to be redone, but I think you could refit it and "flip" it for a profit as long as you did most of the work yourself and kept the purchases moderate.

the entire boat needs work. It floats!
I would like to take it on as a project boat, but like i said, i will end up buying something i will live on and i just dont see that hunter as fitting my needs. not because of the work that needs to be done, but the space itself is not ideal.

I wouldnt have a problem buying a different boat in near the same condition as that hunter for a low price and doing the work.

[Pete7]

Rufs, I think your problem is there are too many yachts that would suit your needs. I don't buy into the blue water thingy, in that size range most boats will cross an ocean.

If you want to see what others are using, then have a search for the Atlantic Rally for Cruisers departing the Canaries in a couple of weeks for the Carib. 220 asorted yachts of every size and description.

If I had to choose one, how about one of these:

http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listin..._id=76698&url=