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Old 11-11-2015, 21:56   #166
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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If we could always have everything just the way we like, wouldn't we soon become bored? And wouldn't we miss out on a lot of good ideas that sprang from the uninitiated?

We are fortunate to have a such a wide cross section of boat lovers, be they old and sea-worn or new and clueless. And we are especially fortunate to have an open forum where we can all freely express our ideas without censure.
Yes--I adore the viewpoints of the old and sea-worn as well as the dreams of the new and clueless. Those are wonderful--and not at all boring as the predictable conversations that don't come from either end. The best are the old and sea-worn who are still as clueless as the young and inexperienced.

Now as to Don CL --no, no, I'm not the least bored with your posts nor casting you into that bin so don't go putting yourself there voluntarily!
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Old 11-11-2015, 22:21   #167
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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Now as to Don CL --no, no, I'm not the least bored with your posts nor casting you into that bin so don't go putting yourself there voluntarily!
Ah, good, can I get back to my nap now in my La-Z-Boy? I am really liking the idea of mounting it over my lazarette.
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Old 12-11-2015, 00:04   #168
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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I don't know why everyone busts on Bumfuzzle so much. They may do some things in a Keystone Cop kind of way, but the fact remains that they have had some pretty cool adventures, on land and on sea, have lived more fully and on the edge than most people would ever dare, and write a pretty entertaining blog to boot.

All in all I say thumbs up to the Bumfuzzles.
I am not a big reader [edit: of the Bumfuzzles Blog] so probably have not much right to an opinion, but from the little I've seen of their blog, I would say that there is a certain arrogant cluelessness that bothers people -- combined with lack of respect for the sea. It's a certain ironic pose perhaps that is fashionable these days -- like the college kids who go to cross the Atlantic in a pedalo. As if life is just a TV show, and the sea is not the sea we love and fear, but just a TV studio set, and whatever happens to them is just another funny TV misadventure.


Most of us do live on the edge sometimes (anyone who would go to sea without getting paid for it?!) and have our own misadventures of various types (all self-inflicted since fundamentally, we are out there of just for fun), so are sort of living in glass houses on this, but still -- it's the attitude which rubs some people the wrong way; especially when combined with the extreme narcissism of the commercial blogger.
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Old 12-11-2015, 00:33   #169
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

It would appear the concensus between that armchairees and the sailors is: Knowledge.

Im not an advocate of dinghy sailing as the only way to learn. A person reaches a certain age and does not bend quite as easily or have the wish to endure a few hours beating to wind in an immersion suit and heavy water. Bugger that for a game of soldiers. Live in England and sail in winter to experience dedication to a wet hobby......

However, to be fair, it does no harm to learn how to sail in one of the preliminary courses if only for the reason it teaches what all the bits of rope are for, how to point the boat and how to steer a course in the general direction one hopes to arrive at.

A person with no knowledge would ask, "Does it "really matter" because they dont have the knowledge to know it does. A boat can be bought cheaply but needs knowledge to get the right vessel. Relying on one of us to choose a vessel for them is not a good idea. Our ideas of what is essential differ enormously, along with the size of the bill for the boat.

One week of learning will exponentially increase their base understanding a thousandfold. A month will enable to help them know what they like, want and need for them. Two cruises offshore in rough weather will tell them if they can keep their lunch or not.

These are cheap introductions to sailing. Much better than finding out that the appeal has softened or disappeared altogether when several thousand in.

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Old 12-11-2015, 01:09   #170
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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They did circumnavigate, they just had to do some major $$$ repairs to the hulls in Australia.
New Zealand folks, the work was done in New Zealand... one day you folks up north will realise there's a big ol' ugly stretch of water between NZ and Australia..

I'm glad to see David Lewis' excellent book "Ice Bird" referenced here as well, but let's not forget he had been sailing and voyaging for a lifetime - put him in any boat shortly before a trip and he would've got through to the other end.

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Old 12-11-2015, 07:33   #171
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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I am not a big reader so probably have not much right to an opinion, but from the little I've seen of their blog, I would say that there is a certain arrogant cluelessness that bothers people -- combined with lack of respect for the sea. It's a certain ironic pose perhaps that is fashionable these days -- like the college kids who go to cross the Atlantic in a pedalo. As if life is just a TV show, and the sea is not the sea we love and fear, but just a TV studio set, and whatever happens to them is just another funny TV misadventure.


Most of us do live on the edge sometimes (anyone who would go to sea without getting paid for it?!) and have our own misadventures of various types (all self-inflicted since fundamentally, we are out there of just for fun), so are sort of living in glass houses on this, but still -- it's the attitude which rubs some people the wrong way; especially when combined with the extreme narcissism of the commercial blogger.
Your point is well taken, Dockhead, but to be fair we are all guilty of a certain amount of this just by virtue of our participation on this board or any other social media venue. On some level, those of us who spend any amount of time here giving our "advice, opinion, sharing knowlege," however you want to term it, we feel that we have something to say that someone else either needs or wants to hear. We give ourselves credit for having something of value, at least enough value that it is worth taking the time to write it, supposedly for either the edification or entertainment of someone else. If that were not the case we could all just journal our thoughts in a private diary rather than writing them on a public forum. The fact that our posts are not for commercial purposes may put them in a somewhat different light, but I am not entirely convinced of that either.

I have a blog. I started it for my daughter and grand kids who live on the other side of the country. It was just a fun way to share our lives with them. But I would be lying if I said I don't like it when total strangers take the time to read what I have written and respond to it.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:42   #172
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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Your point is well taken, Dockhead, but to be fair we are all guilty of a certain amount of this just by virtue of our participation on this board or any other social media venue. On some level, those of us who spend any amount of time here giving our "advice, opinion, sharing knowlege," however you want to term it, we feel that we have something to say that someone else either needs or wants to hear. We give ourselves credit for having something of value, at least enough value that it is worth taking the time to write it, supposedly for either the edification or entertainment of someone else. If that were not the case we could all just journal our thoughts in a private diary rather than writing them on a public forum. The fact that our posts are not for commercial purposes may put them in a somewhat different light, but I am not entirely convinced of that either.

I have a blog. I started it for my daughter and grand kids who live on the other side of the country. It was just a fun way to share our lives with them. But I would be lying if I said I don't like it when total strangers take the time to read what I have written and respond to it.
Sorry, I don't buy that. I do not have a blog. I do not want one. I contribute to this forum because I am passionately addicted to being at sea, and have always loved everything about it since I was a child. I hope the time I take on here gives some value and I learn a lot here too from the collective intelligence so represented. This is a "fable of the bees" kind of situation on this site, for sure, but not of the kind you imply. I guard my anonymity on this site for a number of reasons, at least one of which is that I really dislike the self promotion that is spoken of by Dockhead. Few of the really useful voices on here advertise their personal identity.

Can't you get a kick from feedback from strangers without it involving your actual identity? Surely that is in fact more rewarding?

Not trying to lay down a moral law here… I do not buy the biblically inspired guff about vanity either…
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:25   #173
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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New Zealand folks, the work was done in New Zealand... one day you folks up north will realise there's a big ol' ugly stretch of water between NZ and Australia..
Sorry for the mix-up. It's been a few years since I've read their blog.

(Besides, what can you expect from someone that has been brought up in a country where football is played mostly with the hands? )
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:42   #174
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
Your point is well taken, Dockhead, but to be fair we are all guilty of a certain amount of this just by virtue of our participation on this board or any other social media venue. On some level, those of us who spend any amount of time here giving our "advice, opinion, sharing knowlege," however you want to term it, we feel that we have something to say that someone else either needs or wants to hear. We give ourselves credit for having something of value, at least enough value that it is worth taking the time to write it, supposedly for either the edification or entertainment of someone else. If that were not the case we could all just journal our thoughts in a private diary rather than writing them on a public forum. The fact that our posts are not for commercial purposes may put them in a somewhat different light, but I am not entirely convinced of that either.

I have a blog. I started it for my daughter and grand kids who live on the other side of the country. It was just a fun way to share our lives with them. But I would be lying if I said I don't like it when total strangers take the time to read what I have written and respond to it.
Heavens, but I was talking about reckless misadventures COMBINED with commercial blogging. Which in this combination, especially when a dose of ironic posing is mixed in, start to take on the character of public stunts -- talking about the Bumfuzzles, college kids going to sea in pedalos, etc., making their lives into ironic online reality shows.


I did not at all intend to paint all bloggers with the same brush. I wouldn't do it myself -- I'm a rather private person -- but I would never criticize people for wanting to share with friends and relatives and the occasional stranger, as you do.


What we do on here is something yet again different. It's anonymous (unless we choose to reveal who we really are), and it's a conversation rather than a monologue. This I like very, very much -- access to an almost infinite wealth of knowledge of other sailors, comparing experiences, fellowship, and giving back once in a while when we have some knowledge or experience to share. Of course other things go on here (e.g. arguing and willy-waving), like in any society, but the former things are the main ones. A large proportion of what I know about sailing, which I did not learn from experience, I learned from other people on here, and I bet my experience is typical.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:55   #175
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
Your point is well taken, Dockhead, but to be fair we are all guilty of a certain amount of this just by virtue of our participation on this board or any other social media venue. On some level, those of us who spend any amount of time here giving our "advice, opinion, sharing knowlege," however you want to term it, we feel that we have something to say that someone else either needs or wants to hear. We give ourselves credit for having something of value, at least enough value that it is worth taking the time to write it, supposedly for either the edification or entertainment of someone else. If that were not the case we could all just journal our thoughts in a private diary rather than writing them on a public forum. The fact that our posts are not for commercial purposes may put them in a somewhat different light, but I am not entirely convinced of that either.

I have a blog. I started it for my daughter and grand kids who live on the other side of the country. It was just a fun way to share our lives with them. But I would be lying if I said I don't like it when total strangers take the time to read what I have written and respond to it.
What Dockhead said. And I didn't mean to come over a bit heavy with my response. Apologies. I am sure your personal blog is great, and gives you and others a lot of joy. I was speaking about what goes on here on CF in particular.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:03   #176
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

It was taken in the spirit you intended it, I'm sure, both of you. And you both have very valid points. I too am very happy for the information that is shared here on the forum, and to say that I learn a lot here would be quite an understatement. I hope that I contribute something from time to time, however small.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:37   #177
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

While I admire the OP's enthusiasm and adventure minded approach, If I were them, I would spend a couple of years in the PNW cruising up to Desolation Sound, do the 'round the Island trip at least once and spend my spare time bringing my vessel up to offshore capability. I've made the trip from the PNW to Mexico many times on deliveries both ways and would get some experience crossing bars between Cape Flattery and Point Conception.
On the Mexican leg, safe anchorages are few and far between and the Baja is littered with wrecks of those who thought otherwise. Below PV and Manzanillo, it is beautiful beaches but few safe spots to anchor and hang out except up a couple of rivers. Besides, the weather crossing the Gulf can be varied and wicked! Once across you can be starved for wind from any direction or blown off your deck depending on the time of year. Panama is usually pretty quiet and below there I would trust el Pingo's judgement and experience as I've not traveled below Panama.
Think about the wear and tear on your boat as well as yourselves before undertaking such a passage.
As an alternative, get some PNW/ coastal experience on someone else's boat and do the Ba Ha Ha to get the lay of the west coast of Mexican peninsula. Then check out boats for sale in the Sea of Cortez where your $ will go a lot further or go home and resume Plan A or take off south from PV or La Paz. Good luck with your dream... Phil
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:05   #178
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

What Capt Phil said. We came out here in Jun 2014 thinking we knew boats and knew how to sail so "Vanuatu here we come!" But nooooooo... that is not what was gonna happen and now I can say I'm glad.

First we got to know the boat (make that the present tense, it's still an ongoing lesson).

Then we looked up and saw the most beautiful area imaginable.

Then we look west and saw the Pacific, then we looked at the charts, then we sat down and re-evaluated.

A big part of this re-evaluation for me, was sitting down on CF and reading what you had to say. In the beginning I took everything at face value (and was very confused).

One part of the CF experience is me thinking "Holy crap, what is this thing hanging off the alternator, I don't even know what to call it?" and doing a search to help me name it, fix it, replace it, update it, whatever.

A secondary part of going on CF every day is to look at the philosophical discussions on the meaning of cruising, the choices involved, the characteristics that are pretty universal to everyone that is here on a regular basis. (The first time I saw posting #'s under someone's name up in the thousands I was amazed). For what it's worth there is a reverence for the sea and what can be seen from the deck of a boat that I've not found elsewhere. My original, mildly discouraging comments to the OP were based on reading it and never once seeing that love expressed. In a later posting they did and I thought "Well, then, that's OK, maybe they'll make it".

Just living on the edge of the Pacific has made me examine all my assumptions of skill and boat-worthiness all over again. As I write this, the boat is "sailing" at the dock in a 30-40 kt breeze. So, yes, I'm in transition from being an armchair sailor to being something else, something a bit more cautious and certainly more respectful. After years of sailing from Nova Scotia to the Keys I thought I knew, but heh, heh, heh....famous last words.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:05   #179
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

Willy-waving arm chair sailors...now that conjures up too many images this early in the morning.

Nice discussion from all who've contributed. It is always refreshing (and I mean that with absolutely no irony) to read online bantering that is neither banal nor smack downs of people with differing opinions. Everyone's experiences, biases, and even gender differences are part of what keeps this interesting for me and where I learn a lot, which is why I spend waay more time on these forums than any reasonable person would I hope we'll hear more from the OP on their thought process as they learn and buy a boat and eventually cruise. Every now and then, I go back to my original postings as a brand new sailor and boat owner. Makes me cringe, but everyone starts as a newbie, right? We sometimes tend to forget, and give little leeway to the newcomers, about how much there is to learn...and how it's really never ending!
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:11   #180
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Re: Does it really matter which damn sailboat you pick to go down the west coast?

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Of course other things go on here (e.g. arguing and willy-waving), like in any society, but the former things are the main ones. A large proportion of what I know about sailing, which I did not learn from experience, I learned from other people on here, and I bet my experience is typical.
Contrary to popular opinion, you did not learn to wave your Willy from me.
Its too heavy to wave......
Must be an American thing............

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