Do you like your canoe stern sailboat?

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Suijin

My Valiant has a canoe stern.

Pros:
1) Behaves VERY well in a following sea. She has a fat a$$, so there is lots of bouyancy, and perhaps because of the general design she tracks very well and has less of a tendency to slew than other boats. I think her downwind performance in a big following is is the best virtue of this design.

2) Minimal wave slap or other transom related issues at anchor

3) Pretty

Cons:
1) I think all of the above pros are outweighed, alone, by the inconvenience of not having a transom that is easy to board/swim from. I live aboard and anchor out almost exclusively, so I'm in and out of the dinghy or swimming A LOT. Much more than I'm in big following seas going "love that stern". lol

2) Less boat volume. Whether it's storage in lockers or other forms of space, you have less of it in a canoe stern.

3) I have a wind vane so don't have davits and that's pretty much true for any boat with a wind vane. You can put davits or an arch on a boat with a canoe stern so that's not really and issue, although it does make operating the davits incrementally more of a challenge.

As for stowing the dinghy, when it's not floating behind the boat it's either lifted side saddle to the boat (keep growth off, security) or on deck before the mast. I have a block and tackle that I clip onto a halyard, then onto the bow eye of the dink. The dink comes up vertically which makes it easy for me to maneuver it single-handed into position on the foredeck and then lower into position. With the right purchase and hand of rope for the tackle it's quick and easy, although one must think ahead as wind can be a factor.

If I had to do it over again, from a practical perspective, I might be less inclined to go with a canoe stern although the boat has enough other virtues which might override that.

I'll second most of these observations (i don't have davits and slightly different setup). The slightly less room due to the canoe stern (not a significant amount when compared to a raked transom really) the layouts of most of these boats by virtue of design and purpose, generally more than make up for the lost space with exceptional storage sapce through interior layout.
Not wanting to start the following seas DE battle royal, but it has been my personal observation from various vessels that a DE/Canoe stern tracks better in following seas, making motion comfort more enjoyable. This may also be a result that most are full or modified keels, and I have not sailed a square or raked transom boat with a full keel.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Pacific Seacraft, among others, has made notable canoe-stern sailboats. I find them intriguing. Have you had one? If not, do you have friends who have had one? Did you like it?

How do they perform in a following sea?

What do you do to board your dinghy, or swim, or scuba dive, in the absence of a traditional swim platform?

How do you handle situations which call for Mediterranean mooring?

Are there any practical advantages to a canoe stern, aside from the esthetic visual beauty of good design?

Would you do it again?

My Tayana Vancouver42 has a canoe stern. On a recent roundtrip to Hawaii the canoe stern handles the following seas well but we still got water over the stern during a gale once.

While a canoe stern reduces interior volume saying 25% is overstated and with all the other available storage onboard I would say not significant.

I board the boat via a port side ladder and it works well.

Stern tied in Hawaii a couple times (terrible facilities). You just climb over the stern rail so no big deal but I'm sure not as easy as an open fairway.

Would I do it again? You have put the horse in front of the cart. I selected the boat for its offshore sailing ratio specifications...the canoe stern was a bonus. She was made for crossing oceans and does it very well and as comfortable as can be expected under adverse conditions...the numbers don't lie.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Lihuedooley77]

We are Pacific Sea Craft fans, and have sailed most of their designs.

From the wee little Flicka, to the Orion, to The Crealock 34's and 37's.

Erica owned a Crealock 37, cutter rigged sloop. On the 34's there was an optional yawl rig, as well a cutter rigged.

Yep, the following seas were not a problem with the canoe sterned Crealocks.

We loved Phalarope, but Erica eventually sold her . She could dock that Crealock ver smoothly undersail.

Diving, snorkeling, or tender. Boarding ladder port or starboard side, and step into the dink. You can load your dive gear from the boat to the dink, with the dink tied securely with bow and stern lines,

Med moors. or tying a stern line to a palm tree, you can rig a bridle to the port and starbord aft deck cleats, to the dock lines, or long line to the tree.

As far as getting to the dock with a med moor, when we were sailing the greek islands, out 60 foot sail had a stern special designed boarding gang way. Many vessels had those.

As to debarking and boarding from the stern, not sure that would work, depending on your fitness and agility .

What we found our Sailing the Geek Islands, is that it was common place to greet your neighbor, and walk on their vessel to and from the med moored dock as general practice.

In a couple of the marinas, the boats were med moored up to three and four vessels deep, from the outside to the original vessel at the dock. Very friendly and standard practice.

you might even find a dock that you can get stern to and tie up, med moor, and put our your fenders, and step over to a vessel, port or starboard side.

We also had many Greek local people at the docks hanging around who would take our port and starboard stern lines (when we could get our stern of that 60 footer to the dock.)

I am no kidding about many, many boats deep in the crowded marinas. Also, we had vessesl to port and starboard.

We loved the PC Crealocks. We had the whole line of them in our Sailing Club, in Newport Beach, CA. This was several years ago . Also, when the sales rep from the Pacific Seacraft factory had a prospective client, he would bring them down, and I would take them out for a sea trial. Never missed a sale. The Crealocks were excellent sailing vessels.

Another quick story, I was out on the board walk after sailing Erica's Crealock 37, sitting at the coffee peddler overlooking the marina. I got an inspireation, and on the back of a large napkin, wrote a poem about Phalarope. I gave it to Erica, and she had it redone by an caligrapher, and mounted a photo of Phallarope undersail, and the poem in a large frame.

With all of our moves, that picture still hangs in our entry way to this very day.

Life is an Adventure......enjoy

Denny and Erica

[jasbee]

I owned a 12 ton Gauntlet for 16 years and never regretted it. She was canoe sterned and was built in NZ Kauri and Teak timber in NZ over 31 years and launched in 1978.
The design was first produced in England in 1934.
My partner and I sailed from NZ in 2011 and eventually arrived in Thailand in 2014. We spent long periods in various places en route including a year in Australia.
She was a very pretty boat and attracted admiring comments everywhere we were.
Sure, there's a storage penalty with a canoe stern, but that just means taking less junk with you. One quickly learns to adjust to whatever storage that you have.
She was sea kindly and a lovely boat to sail. She is now sold and I will miss her for ever.

[Cheechako]

The only thing a canoe stern reduces is lazarrette space.

[Mithril Bham]

Lived on a Passport 42. Loved the look and the feel in following seas. Didn't seem less roomy than other 42's. So much is subjective but isn't that why we do this?

[CaptainJohn49]

I have a Flicka so I have no experience with a canoe stern but I do have some thoughts.

I was reading Heavy Weather Sailing 7th edition. In talking about stability it was mentioned the in a following sea a modern boat with a wide stern was lifted higher and the boat pivoted at a steeper angle causing the bow to be buried. The stern had less control because the rudder was partially out of the water and the boat is more likely to pivot on the buried bow causing a broach. A broach if not corrected in time could possibly lead to a knock down from a following wave.

A canoe stern has less buoyancy so it rises less, pivots less and therefor keeps the bow higher and the rudder more fully immersed. It also parts the water so there is less power transmitted to the boat and therefore less speed gain from the following seas. Generally slow is good in storm conditions.


Just some thoughts
CaptainJohn49

[LuckyLucky]

I have a 30 foot canoe stern yacht. It sails beautifully and is very steady. I bought it because it looks great!

[Greg Mason]

We looked at Vancouver 42s, Past Passage 39s, many Bob Perrys and found them all to have different attributes. As a Pacific Ocean circler, it was rare to have a following sea, almost impossible to have an aft swell at anchor or have a wind vane, although you could climb the wind vane, as I did my Monitor. The beam of a vessel can be carried well aft in a standard hull, not so much in a canoe stern, compromising aft storage or aft cabins. I've heard so many reasons for choosing a particular boat for a single option that may or may not exist, I've lost track. However, I remember the one that sticks out in my mind. Buy a steel or ferrocement boat, so (a) when you go up on a reef it will survive or (b) deemed affordable enough to walk away from (b). Go figure.

[Siberian Sea]

Although my sailboat is not a double ender in do however own a large commercial fishing vessel in Alaska and it is a true double ender. I have fished this vessel for 23 years there in all kinds of horrible weather and I can contest that for its given size it’s extremely seaworthy as compared to other vessels it’s same length and tonnage. It really shines in terms of fuel efficiency and large following seas. Although in a big stearn quarter it can roll some. The Vikings sailed double Enders all over and it’s my opinion it’s not only the most attractive hull but the safest design.

[Uncle Bob]

Fisher 32 owner here and I not only like the look of the big round butt but love the way in a following sea it rises to the swell so very comfortably.

[Nadezhda]

I love my Saltram Saga 40 double-ender. It handles following seas beautifully but the real bonus is that the angle of heel has no bearing on the directional stability. When big gusts hit, you just lean over and plough onwards whilst all the fat-bottomed girls are rounding-up uncontrollably.

[Sojourner]

We have a sugarscoop so I can't comment, but forget wanting to board from the stern after you've been boarding from the side. In flat water, either is fine, but with any wave slop the side is smooth, but the stern is gonna bash yer noggin

[stillbuilding]

I have had a Saga 40 couple ender and do think it tracked nicely and handled following seas well.

Later had a 38’ canoe stern alloy racer which was raced and cruised for few decades in Bass Strait, Australia before I owned it- lovely to manage in heavy weather. Took an occasional wave over the stern enough to give wet boots but the steering unaffected by following seas.

Now have 60’ Freya - great in weather.

No argument about restriction in lazarette storage but at 60’ I can almost stand up in there so who cares - just get a bigger boat.

I have a midship set of boarding steps with platform and store couple of dingies on the foredeck - go bigger if these are important to you.

[GILow]

I'm with the lovers.

Swanson 42, canoe stern. As Uncle Bob says, big round backside. Love it. I've glanced back over my shoulder when leaving a marina in VERY bad weather to see a giant, breaking wave coming in behind me. Easily 15 feet tall. No problem. She just lifted sweetly and steered true. Didn't break a sweat.

However, as noted by a few here, you lose space. I reckon my 42 footer is more like an equivalent 38 footer, square stern boat.

What's not to love here...