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Old 19-04-2013, 11:19   #1
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Do I Really Need a Traveler?

OK do I really need a traveler? I am rebuilding an Irwin 37, it had a traveler which ran across the top of the cockpit seat back. I removed to refinish and paint and would rather not put it back as it would be in the way of a complete inclosure I would like to have made in the future. There is a single amidships pad where I could attach the main sheet. I also considered placing two more fixed attach points on the outboard sides of the couch roof and using a snap shackle on the end of my main sheet so I could move it to the outside if I wanted. The vessel will be used strictly for cursing and I thought this might work out..... Any comments?
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:44   #2
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Re: Do I really need a traveler?

If it was mine, it would definitely be a cause for cursing. How are you going to control twist in the main as well as centering the boom. Could be done with blocks but forces go up as the lever arm decreases with moving them forward. A rigid vang is another factor as that makes a traveller somewhat superfluous.

A travellor all the way aft needs a vang set up to control mainsail twist quickly as the boom is moved out. Mainseet travellers on the cabin top can act fairly well to control the main over a much wider range. Usually will require a sheet winch if you move the traveller forward.
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Old 19-04-2013, 11:56   #3
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

I do have a boom vang, (not solid) and my sheet is attach near the end of the boom, sheet has a 4 to 1 purchase. Obvously I would not be able to move the sheet to the outside which the sheet is under load but not sure I would need to, just luff the sail first.

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Old 19-04-2013, 12:04   #4
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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OK do I really need a traveler? I am rebuilding an Irwin 37, it had a traveler which ran across the top of the cockpit seat back. I removed to refinish and paint and would rather not put it back as it would be in the way of a complete inclosure I would like to have made in the future. There is a single amidships pad where I could attach the main sheet. I also considered placing two more fixed attach points on the outboard sides of the couch roof and using a snap shackle on the end of my main sheet so I could move it to the outside if I wanted. The vessel will be used strictly for cursing and I thought this might work out..... Any comments?

A boat that size has to have a traveler. You can't control sail shape without it. If a gust suddenly overpowers you, releasing the traveler is a quick, safe and easy way to spill the sail and depower it.

I have a cockpit enclousre. It stops just aft of the traveler.
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Old 19-04-2013, 12:21   #5
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

Without a traveller, you can't centre the boom without losing sail shape in light airs, as a tight mainsheet has the same effect as a vang ie. kills sail twist and flattens the sail. Also as above, releasing the traveller is a much better way than dumping the mainsheet to depower, as the sail shape stays the same when the traveller moves. If you just dump the sheet, you could initially be powering UP the sail unless you have enough vang on.
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Old 19-04-2013, 12:24   #6
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

Could I not just release the sheet to de-power? I have seen several other Irwin 37,s with just a locking slide on a track.(Like a Jib Sheet Track) Would not want to release one of the locks under load, that's for sure.
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Old 19-04-2013, 13:01   #7
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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Could I not just release the sheet to de-power? I have seen several other Irwin 37,s with just a locking slide on a track.(Like a Jib Sheet Track) Would not want to release one of the locks under load, that's for sure.

See the post above yours. There's absolutely no reason not to release the traveler under load. It's done all the time and an excellent way to handle suden gusts.
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Old 19-04-2013, 13:07   #8
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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Could I not just release the sheet to de-power? I have seen several other Irwin 37,s with just a locking slide on a track.(Like a Jib Sheet Track) Would not want to release one of the locks under load, that's for sure.
Of course you can. My friend has a roberts 34 done just the way you want to do yours, and it works fine. I plan to do the same with mine. Go for it!
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Old 19-04-2013, 13:10   #9
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

We have a W32 that has no traveller. Our boom is sheeted off to blocks at the very stern and then pulled forward to the cockpit. We also have a soft vang.

That said we race a lot of Wed nights and weekends. The boat we crew on does have a traveller and we use it all the time.

It is very hard to describe how sailing changes between our boat and the "race" boat. You need to go crew on both boats and get a feel for how it works. Our boat without a traveller is more limited in its ability to point, spill wind, shape the sail for performance, etc. However, we do get where we're going.
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Old 19-04-2013, 13:13   #10
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin37 View Post
Could I not just release the sheet to de-power? I have seen several other Irwin 37,s with just a locking slide on a track.(Like a Jib Sheet Track) Would not want to release one of the locks under load, that's for sure.
Yes you can use the mainsheet to depower. Bethwaite in his book says that depowering using the mainsheet allows the sail to twist and cause more drag than depowering by traveller keeping the leech straight. So depowering by traveller will keep boat speed higher and keep you pointing better. Depowering by mainsheet luffs the sail at the top where there is more lever arm, so you move the CE lower and presumably make the boat easier to control.

I have an old traveler, and I use it to shape my mainsail, but between the 3:1 purchase and no ball bearings, under load it only goes one way, to leeward. Once it's down I have to ease the mainsheet to bring it back up, so it doesn't get played. If the wind comes up it goes to leeward and stays there. The wind really has to die down before I touch it again.

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Old 19-04-2013, 13:34   #11
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

what a traveller does can be done in a different way, by using blocks and tackles and fixed points. old vessels did it that way--go look at gaff rigged sloop riggging--you will see there didnt used to be any sechuvathang as a traveller--i will be refitting my formosa sans travellers, also. is basically, a 3 point system.
travellers take up a lot of unnecesary space on the cap or deck. they cause leaking into the cores of decks and coach house roofs... there are ways to be happy without them.


one does not require a traveller to center or relocate a boom to spill wind. use of main sheet will depower the main easily and without problems in a functional system.
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Old 19-04-2013, 13:41   #12
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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what a traveller does can be done in a different way, by using blocks and tackles and fixed points. old vessels did it that way--go look at gaff rigged sloop riggging--you will see there didnt used to be any sechuvathang as a traveller--i will be refitting my formosa sans travellers, also. is basically, a 3 point system.
travellers take up a lot of unnecesary space on the cap or deck. they cause leaking into the cores of decks and coach house roofs... there are ways to be happy without them.


one does not require a traveller to center or relocate a boom to spill wind. use of main sheet will depower the main easily and without problems in a functional system.

Mine was built in 1983 and it doesn't leak. Just sayin'.

I think I'd rather have the traveler than a bunch of blocks and extra lines, and I like being able to control it from the cockpit, but I'm sure you know exactly what you're doing and it will work wonderfully well. Do you ever take pictures? that would be great when you have it done.
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Old 19-04-2013, 14:14   #13
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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I think I'd rather have the traveler than a bunch of blocks and extra lines, and I like being able to control it from the cockpit, but I'm sure you know exactly what you're doing and it will work wonderfully well. Do you ever take pictures? that would be great when you have it done.
my main is without traveler--is no problem for my 19 ft boom to be handled with only my sheet at the cockpit. there is only one line. no vang, nothing else fro main control. just my main sheet. works great. is not at end of boom, which is most inefficient, thus requiring a vang, but is 2/3 to end of boom. perfect placement, as designed. works well on cruising boats. very very easy to use this way and simple.

this boat works well as designed to cruise.

my mizzen also has a traveller-free system.

all my lines to control my sails are in my cockpit--to raise main, one must go to mast to raise it, but my boat is safe enough to do that even in rough and pitching seas.

people with experience sailing more than a couple of kinds of boats know how to do this--if you need assist, there should be a salty soul close by.

it generally takes about 30 yrs to develop a good visible leak. there are many invisible leaks, especially where travelers and mast steps are concerned. not to mention ports and windows and hatches. all boats have leaks, and the worst ones are not readily visible.
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Old 19-04-2013, 14:23   #14
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

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my main is without traveler--is no problem for my 19 ft boom to be handled with only my sheet at the cockpit. there is only one line. no vang, nothing else fro main control. just my main sheet. works great. is not at end of boom, which is most inefficient, thus requiring a vang, but is 2/3 to end of boom. perfect placement, as designed. works well on cruising boats. very very easy to use this way and simple.

this boat works well as designed to cruise.

my mizzen also has a traveller-free system.

all my lines to control my sails are in my cockpit--to raise main, one must go to mast to raise it, but my boat is safe enough to do that even in rough and pitching seas.

people with experience sailing more than a couple of kinds of boats know how to do this--if you need assist, there should be a salty soul close by.

it generally takes about 30 yrs to develop a good visible leak. there are many invisible leaks, especially where travelers and mast steps are concerned. not to mention ports and windows and hatches. all boats have leaks, and the worst ones are not readily visible.
Actually, by now the fiberglass would surely have soft spots. I invite you to come and find the leaks on my boat.

Are we really going to bicker over the leaks you are certain are on my boat, which you have never seen? Please say no. I really would like to see your alternative system to traveler, because I would learn from it. I would think many would. But it's a bit of bother to take a picture, upload them, write the explanation, etc., and it's a lot to ask. If you don't want to, I can't blame you for that.
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Old 19-04-2013, 14:27   #15
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Re: Do I Really Need a Traveler?

[quote]
Actually, by now the fiberglass would surely have soft spots. I invite you to come and find the leaks on my boat.

Are we really going to bicker over the leaks you are certain are on my boat, which you have never seen? Please say no. I really would like to see your alternative system to traveler, because I would learn from it. I would think many would. But it's a bit of bother to take a picture, upload them, write the explanation, etc., and it's a lot to ask. If you don't want to, I can't blame you for that
[/unquote]

raku--look at any gaff rigged sloop. look also at cruising boats. not day sailors, not racing boats, but true cruising boats that cruise. you will find a world there you still know nada about.

the only one arguing is you, i am imparting knowledge to souls requesting same. and, yes i DO have enough experience to so do.

as i have found out from ownership of fg boats, they do leak where you do not expect them to leak. i am not nor did i ever saying yours does, i am saying they do..

now that i am going to be in golfo de california for a bit of time, i will not be able to upload any more than i am able to here in bandwidth poor mexico. the wifi and banda ancha in baja and up the golfo is very sketchy and unreliable. that is why i refer you to other boats with similar set ups. they are everywhere. costs a lot less for you to go to a boat with similar set ups than for me to post a picture, at 500 pesos for each 2 gigabytes.
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