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Old 16-08-2010, 15:35   #61
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Love these guys on here..and it is a great discussion..go pick up a few good books on cruising that were written by people who have been at it for years (not saying you guys haven't) and read all about what they are doing, what kind of boats they get there in ...the Pardeys for example..

I am trying to work a deal on a Tanzer 28 that has been most way around..have seen the pictures..but at a bouncy 6800 lbs, I wouldn't do it..
Will probably anger some folks here, but if money is an object, you may not want a boat much longer than 35-37 feet...the costs of maintenance and moorage seem to rise in a steep curve starting at about 40 feet..

Just my humble opinion..
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Old 16-08-2010, 16:28   #62
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We were in Tonga for a month 2 years ago and of the cruisers we met 3 of the boats have now sunk.
Plus a fourth boat we met in Panama was destroyed

They were all worthy 'blue water' boats.

One hit coral on the edge of a channel into Samoa (Sailor error)
One was sailing in company from NZ to Fiji in light weather and sprung a leak and sank. Another boat grabbed them before their boat went down. (Equipment error? Sea Cock?)
One decided to anchor in Fiji during the Cyclone season and didnt check the weather. (Sailor error)
One was popped onto a Mexican beach because the owner slept through the alarm. (Sailor error)

They have all been discussed on Cruisers Forum


In out 2 1/2 years of cruising they are the only boats I've met that have sunk. Quite a frightening lot to go under when I met them all in the space of 4 months.

NONE of the sunk boats were Hunters, Beneteaus, Bavarias, Jeneaus, Catalinas or the other production boats that get slagged off at in these type of threads.

So listen to this piece of advice: Stop blaming the frekking tool! Blame the frikking sailor!





Mark
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Old 16-08-2010, 17:06   #63
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So listen to this piece of advice: Stop blaming the frekking tool! Blame the frikking sailor!





Mark

But Mark.............................................h ow could it EVER be my fault! It HAD to be the BOAT!
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Old 16-08-2010, 19:00   #64
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So listen to this piece of advice: Stop blaming the frekking tool! Blame the frikking sailor!





Mark
Cheers!, My thoughts exactly, there are far too many "non" blue water boats out there, doing it as we speak. I think regardless of the boat design or class, All sailors need to rely on their experience more then relying on the boat. Watch the weather, sail within your means. And don't force the clock, if you can't make it there safe wait.
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Old 16-08-2010, 21:22   #65
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If you get a boat well suited for blue water it will not make up for your short comings as a sailor....but by the same token the only inadequacies you should have to think about are your own. Some boats are only designed for short coastal sailing and are not safe at sea.
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Old 16-08-2010, 22:14   #66
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FWIW, In the last few years looking at boats for sale here in Australia and in Asia, I came across a lot of production boats sailed from Europe/US/Carrib. down here, many on extended voyages. I found a lot of Benes/Jennes, a few larger Hunters, the odd MacGregor and a small number of Catalinas.

Im not saying this is reflective of anything other than my sample group but considering the price differences its intersting that there are a lot more of the higher priced Benes/Jennes that have made the journey compared to the cheaper Hunters et al.

Don't get me wrong - I had some day/short trip sails on all of these and appreciate them all, especially the Catalinas use of space for a family cruiser. Just an observation on the type of boats that wind up down here, halfway RTW......
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Old 16-08-2010, 23:08   #67
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"Do I *NEED* a blue water boat?"......not necessarily, but it will make life alot more enjoyable.
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Old 17-08-2010, 00:48   #68
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Goldsholl, In the first couple of decades of production building of plastic boats the builders erred on the side of caution, making very thick skins, especially about the keel area. As an example, When I drilled a hole to add a through-hull on my Cal(1976), the scrap piece was more than 1" thick! Unfortunately, competition & the increase in material costs, especially oil, led many builders to cut corners, resulting, in many cases, in lower quality boats.
The builder of my 60% finished 42' boat has just handed the plug he cut out to fit the propshaft skeg. It measures 38 mm thick which is 1.5 inches, so you can still get heavy duty boats built, you just don't see them at too many boat shows. It takes a little longer (15 months so far) It's not that much dearer because you don't have to modify stuff on it to go cruising and I expect long term maintenance to be lower. I deal directly with the boat builder, so I'm not paying any fat commisions to a salesman and I'm not paying to import the boat from the other side of the world. It's been a slow process so far, but I'm enjoying the journey as I watch it all come together - a bit like cruising actually.

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Old 17-08-2010, 01:06   #69
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So listen to this piece of advice: Stop blaming the frekking tool! Blame the frikking sailor!





Mark[/QUOTE]

But Mark, we all know society is to blame.


Bob!!
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Old 17-08-2010, 01:33   #70
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There have been interminable discussions about "Blue Water" boats, here and elsewhere. My boat, for example, an Islander Freeport 41, has often been accused of not being "Blue Water". Right now one is in Polynesia having completed a passage from Colombia. Another is in Australia and those are just two that I know of. Last time I heard, the trip from California to the South Pacific involves some "Blue Water" sailing.

That said, IMHO, "Blue Water" is not a specification, it's a spectrum involving both boat and sailor. Would I go to sea in my old Venture 24? Not a chance. Would I go in my Islander? After proper fitting out, absolutely! There are some boats that don't even make the first cut, some that, with some work and money, can be made capable and some that are ready now.

The OP said he ws interested in a Hunter because it was cheap and roomy. I can't think of two worse reasons to select a boat that I would be risking my life in and I suspect that, by the time it was "Blue Water" ready it would cost more than a new first class offshore boat.

All of which begs the question of what is a "Blue Water" boat. The answer to that question is, like so many others, "that depends". A good sailor can circumnavigate in a bad boat. A bad sailor in a good boat won't get out of the harbor. Give my old golf clubs to Tiger Woods and he might still be able to win the Masters. Give me his clubs and I couldn't even get a spectator ticket. There are some boats that don't even rate a first look. Others, in knowlegable hands, can be made capable. Others are ready now. Personally, a stock Hunter of any age in the hands of a novice is a recipe for disaster.

BTW, I know this thread goes back a couple of years, but the subject is obviously still timely.

Dick Pluta
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Old 17-08-2010, 01:46   #71
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We were in Tonga for a month 2 years ago and of the cruisers we met 3 of the boats have now sunk.
Plus a fourth boat we met in Panama was destroyed

They were all worthy 'blue water' boats.
There does seem to be a "hair-shirt" brigade that thinks production = cr*p but it has always been that way. In the 1980s hi-fi buffs would tell you that the only decent sound system was a custom built one. In the 1990s computer buffs would tell you that only a custom built PC was any use yet Dell, HP and IBM/Lenovo took over the world. This is no different

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In out 2 1/2 years of cruising they are the only boats I've met that have sunk. Quite a frightening lot to go under when I met them all in the space of 4 months.
Hmmm... note to self.... keep MarkJ away from whatever boat I buy
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Old 17-08-2010, 06:57   #72
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Very few boats are ever really going to face survival conditions - so, the question is more one of speed and comfort.

Modern, lighter-displacement fin keelers are going to be faster in normal conditions and generally more spacious down below. The caveats are that many (though not all) lack adequate storage and water and fuel tankage for a long crossing.

I'm thinking of a friend's Jenneau 42DS. Nice boat, but 32 gallon fuel tank. Mine is 90 gallons.

Having said that, there are only a couple of 30-day passages anywhere in the world, so some of these issues don't necessarily present themselves on a regular basis.

I did an 8-day around the Delmarva this year on a lighter displacement 38' sloop. She was fast and did well in light air - better than my 22,000 lbs Tayana 37. But she pounded into the short Chesapeake chop on the way south in a way my T37 would not have. That motion doesn't bother me much, but it makes my wife queasy and uncomfortable.

Anyway, everything is a trade off, eh?
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Old 17-08-2010, 07:15   #73
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Anyway, everything is a trade off, eh?
Indeed. As someone pointed out to me once, if you need a runner you can have a sprinter that will do 100 metres in 10 seconds or someone who will do 26 miles in 2 hours. Don't expect them to be same runner. Both will be amongst the fastest in the world - at their own distances.
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Old 17-08-2010, 19:29   #74
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So listen to this piece of advice: Stop blaming the frekking tool! Blame the frikking sailor!





Mark
The whole purpose of this thread is to determine if you need to buy the right tool or if you can get by with something designed for another purpose. Safety is the most important thing, with out a doubt, there is no reason to compromise there. Even a boat that is more comfortable in heavy seas is a safety factor, fatigue contributes to alot of problems.
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Old 17-08-2010, 21:18   #75
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Blue water boat?

I don't know but many of the oceans I have seen have blue water, some a little more green, some a little more turquoise...(Grin)

Sure it would be nice to have a Hans Christian or similar in the heat of a hurricane but really with an aware sailer how often is this going to occur?

RTW...depends, as snueman mentions there are only a few places on earth where a 3000 nm trip is needed... even at only 100 nm per day this is only 30 days... Well within the ability of most boats equipped correctly (Crew mentality included)

It is said that many of these "PRODUCTION" boats are mearlly "COASTAL CRUISERS" but is it not possible to make it RTW with only a couple of 3000nm sections???

Perhaps these coastal cruisers, coastal cruising RTW are really doing it and enjoying the adventure...

Yes, If I were planning to go RTW around the horns, coming near the coast as little as possible and spending the majority of the travel at deep sea away from the world of land then yes I would be looking for the heaviest, most load carrying vessel I could possibly handle...

I for one am interested in coastal cruising RTW by seeing as much of this world as possible from the access provided by my boat as I hop from anchorage to anchorage.

The best post for advice I have seen here is by Mike, buy that boat, sail the cr#p out of it...

This will teach you what you and only you will demand from your boat... The selection of a boat is very personal and individualistic to meet the requirements you will learn.

So, to answer your question; Do you need a blue water boat?

It depends on you and how you desire to go RTW???
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