Dismasted !

[osirissail]

**** happens, sometimes the strangest things - like in this case maybe somebody flipped their cigarette ash into the wire batch just as your destined piece of wire passed by. I seriously doubt anything deliberately nefarious.
- - I had purchased a new piece of wired exhaust hose a few years back and it looked fine but 3 hours later when in use a thumb sized hole opened in the side of the hole and spewed hot salt water and exhaust fumes all over my engine room. Later upon inspection we surmised that somewhere in the shipping process, most probably, a forklift tong collided with the hose and overstressed the sidewall. I was the lucky guy to get that one piece of hose. I got another piece for free with free delivery, but was left with a salt encrusted engine room to clean. Not fun.
- - As to rigging wire, I switched to the British "Dyform" which is 25% stronger and has a flattened outer surface. It uses a different "Staylok" cone, but otherwise is the same size as normal 1x19 wire.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by osirissail

**** happens, sometimes the strangest things - like in this case maybe somebody flipped their cigarette ash into the wire batch just as your destined piece of wire passed by. I seriously doubt anything deliberately nefarious.
- - I had purchased a new piece of wired exhaust hose a few years back and it looked fine but 3 hours later when in use a thumb sized hole opened in the side of the hole and spewed hot salt water and exhaust fumes all over my engine room. Later upon inspection we surmised that somewhere in the shipping process, most probably, a forklift tong collided with the hose and overstressed the sidewall. I was the lucky guy to get that one piece of hose. I got another piece for free with free delivery, but was left with a salt encrusted engine room to clean. Not fun.
- - As to rigging wire, I switched to the British "Dyform" which is 25% stronger and has a flattened outer surface. It uses a different "Staylok" cone, but otherwise is the same size as normal 1x19 wire.

Yeah too true.. There are a couple of races coming up here shortly, if the rig is in the boat by then I might enter us, it would be a good test on the rig anyway.

[Bergovoy]

yea, i am sure it wasnt nefarious, or anything 'deliberate' where somone knew the end product would be 'weakened'.. but, it could be some short cuts in manufacturing, somewhere... I am glad that samples from other spools proved to be equally weak...

I originally thought it was a knicked wire, similar to the forklift pinching the tube/stressing the hose story... but with similar test results on that wire proved it was a 'bad batch' of wire... and i feel for that company and all the sailors who bought it and wont find out till later...

and yea, i am confident that the rigger will pull in a bunch of favors to take care of you...

[knothead]

Call me skeptical. I would really like to see some pictures of the failed cable. Was it 1x19 wire? Did all 19 strands break at the same location? When the wire was tested at the lab, did all the strands break at the same place? Did the wire fail just inside the swage?
Where are the photos?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - As to rigging wire, I switched to the British "Dyform" which is 25% stronger and has a flattened outer surface. It uses a different "Staylok" cone, but otherwise is the same size as normal 1x19 wire.

We long ago switched to Dyform as well -- stronger, less stretch, and most importantly, (at least up till the last time I rerigged a few years ago) only the British OEM made that sort of wire, so that you knew where it came from. I felt that that alone made it worthwhile. I suppose that inevitably some shonky far east folks will start imitating this product. Hope not, though!

Cheers,

Jim

[osirissail]

Back in the "olden" days good 316 SS wire was made in many countries in the western world. Dyform - if I remember correctly - is just slightly larger 1x19 wire that is pulled thorugh a "die" to compress and flatten the 1x19 round wires. This causes the round wire to be compressed into the air spaces between the individual round wire. You end up with standard O.D. size wire but with more "metal" and less air space.
- - How long the source of round 1x19 SS wire will be still available from "western" wire makers is problematical. As environmental and worker safety and renumeration steadily increase in the "west" the more tempting it is to get your wire from the "east" where such considerations are currently unknown. I would take a wild guess that by now the source wire is all coming from Southeast Asia. And in the near future the pulling into "Dyform" will also move there.
- - But still I believe more metal in the wire will mean less stress on individual strands and the wire will "hold" together under adverse conditions better.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Back in the "olden" days good 316 SS wire was made in many countries in the western world. Dyform - if I remember correctly - is just slightly larger 1x19 wire that is pulled thorugh a "die" to compress and flatten the 1x19 round wires. This causes the round wire to be compressed into the air spaces between the individual round wire. You end up with standard O.D. size wire but with more "metal" and less air space.
.

G'Day again,

Actually, it is a bit more complicated than that. This link (if I can get it to stick) will show how the construction differs from 1x19 conventional wire:
Dyform Features

Hope this helps understand why it is superior.

Cheers,

Jim

[Bergovoy]

my understanding is that wire/metal when formed and drawn thru dies not only change size, but becomre stronger, significantly...

[conachair]

Now that's interesting, on their site it shows dyform 1 x 19 as being right hand lay
Bridon : Products : Structural : Dyform Stainless Steel Strand
I rerigged with dyform couple of years ago and it's all left had lay. Just checked. Wonder why that is?

[Bergovoy]

i am guessing youa re talking about the orientation of the 'twist'?

I would imagine it mgiht be ideal to have both on board, one direction for port side, and the other direction for starboard..???

just guessing/thinking out loud

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

my understanding is that wire/metal when formed and drawn thru dies not only change size, but becomre stronger, significantly...

I think if you campare the weight per unit length dyform is heavier, the wire isn't itself isn't stronger there's just more of it compared with the same dia normal 1 x 19.

[Bergovoy]

yea, makes sense, but like i said, Im not sure of all what goes on.. i was thinking more a reorgaizing at the 'cellular level' type of thing... kinda like annealing metals and glass and other material...

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

i am guessing youa re talking about the orientation of the 'twist'?

I would imagine it mgiht be ideal to have both on board, one direction for port side, and the other direction for starboard..???

just guessing/thinking out loud

Yep, same as with 3 strand rope. Usually RHOL - right hand ordinary lay. That's why you should always coil a rope "with the sun", clockwise. Otherwise it gets twisted more.

The only practical difference I've come across is that under load, left had lay will try to untwist by rotating clockwise, the norsman fittings i have are right hand thread at the top of the turnbuckle so when the wire rope tries to unwind under load it will try to do up the turnbuckle. Opposite for ordinary 1 x 19 right hand lay.
Though it doesn't matter really that much with the amount of torque needed to rotate a turnbuckle under load and they will have siezing wire or split pins fitted anyway. Should anyway!

[Bergovoy]

ok, now i am going to show my ingnorance and or my lack of spatial orientation thing..

do they 'coil' the rope in the same direction on the southern hemisphere? or would it be counter colockwise or against the sunrise?

dang it. i know i will catch some slack but i wont be able to sleep until i find out...

ok, im ready, bring it

[JJB]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

ok, now i am going to show my ingnorance and or my lack of spatial orientation thing..

do they 'coil' the rope in the same direction on the southern hemisphere? or would it be counter colockwise or against the sunrise?

dang it. i know i will catch some slack but i wont be able to sleep until i find out...

ok, im ready, bring it

Okay okay I'll do my best so you can sleep, we coil in the other direction, but if you visit the American embassy like in the Simpsons, they have a special machine that will coil it in the northern hemisphere direction, just so you don't get home sick.