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Old 14-03-2016, 12:14   #31
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

Just had new 35 hp Beta 4 cylinder diesel fitted in 36 ft boat in uk by main dealer with 5 year warranty on engine and installation to factory standards. New engine, panel, electrics, alternator, starter, heat exchanger, filters, hoses, flexible couplkng, gearboz, shaft, stern seal, exhaust, & prop, and 150 litre stainless steel tank etc. all professionally fitted, total end cost about 12000 gbp. Inc 20% tax.
2 months ago.

Included removing old engine and modifying engine beds with new mounts.
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Old 14-03-2016, 15:59   #32
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

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Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum View Post
Please be wary of a mere discount in this context. Some boats have negative value. That is, they will be worth less after a refit of this magnitude than the refit costs. Also, for a 80s-era 40-footer, I'd think your aux engine might be more like 70-80 HP. As always, anything I say might be wrong.
I agree...with older boats, you are often buying the engine, with a boat attached. If the engine is no good, the boat is good for parts, unless you can find someone crazy (like me) who likes to sail with no engine. But the boat would still be "negative value"...meaning that I would only accept it for free. I have actually been offered free boats with non-running engines, and turned them down. It breaks my heart. If its a cheap/simple fix (as the owners often say), you have to wonder why they haven't had it done? Because the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the boat.

Yet another reason to get excited about electric drives. Still, a ton of work to remove the old engine and install an electric motor...and thats before you even consider batteries, etc.
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Old 14-03-2016, 16:20   #33
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

If you can't do the work, you'd be better off buying a boat in good condition. If you have an abundance of money you'd still be better off with a better boat. Any boat with lack of maintenance problems will have other hidden problems.
I would rather have an older 100% mechanical engine rebuilt by someone competent than a new engine with any electronic controls. I know of boats at sea that had engine circuit board problems after electrical storms or an alternator burnout, etc., and their engine either failed to run or would only idle.
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Old 14-03-2016, 16:37   #34
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

An old boat with all 3 of those issues would be free IMO. In fact I know a sturdy 35 you can get right now with Hasse/Port Townsend sails, a bad diesel, no teak decks and aluminum spar. So only one of the 3 ills you suggest.
The reality is there is big risk in attempting to "make a silk purse out of a sows ear". Not all repairing comes out 100% on old stuff.
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Old 14-03-2016, 17:23   #35
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
True.


No, it is more like filling a hole or two THOUSAND!

Never mind that those holes, also, almost always allow water intrusion, meaning you also have to replace wet core material.
LOL I was just presenting an optimistic view on it But yes there would be thousands of holes, lol
However not an issue if you don't have foam core, and why I followed the best advice of all, to purchase a solid hand laid fiberglass yacht. Cored yachts, especially foam core is a recipe for trouble, $$$$$$$.
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Old 14-03-2016, 18:03   #36
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

unless the hull is exceptional...take th value of the boat and deduct $20K FOR THE ENGINE the rest deduct cost of replacement plus 20 percent
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Old 14-03-2016, 18:04   #37
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

unless the hull is exceptional...take the value of the boat and deduct $20K FOR THE ENGINE the rest deduct cost of replacement plus 20 percent
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Old 14-03-2016, 18:31   #38
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

1) Repowering with a new diesel and shaft (say roughly 40hp)

Ask the engine shop for a quote.

2) Replacing an old wooden mast and boom with new aluminum spars and standing rigging

Ask the rigger for a quote.

3) Replacing an old teak deck with fiberglass (with a small to "normal" amount of water intrustion and core rot)

Ask the shipwright for a quote.

Why guess numbers that can be estimated?

40k, give or take

b.
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Old 14-03-2016, 18:47   #39
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post

Wake up with the roof dropping water: priceless...

Hope this help
Stef
Stefano! You are a cracker! ;-)

And THX for the pdf with Beta price list!!!

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Old 14-03-2016, 19:11   #40
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheoyLee39 View Post
LOL I was just presenting an optimistic view on it But yes there would be thousands of holes, lol
However not an issue if you don't have foam core, and why I followed the best advice of all, to purchase a solid hand laid fiberglass yacht. Cored yachts, especially foam core is a recipe for trouble, $$$$$$$.
I have not seen a Cheoy Lee with foam core or solid glass under the teak. I have seen some with balsa, some with some kind of hard wood and worst of all ... plywood. There is not much consistency on any Taiwan vessel of the vintage, they tended to use whatever was lying in the yard at the moment.
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Old 14-03-2016, 19:12   #41
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post

Why guess numbers that can be estimated?

b.
I suppose because I am just asking hypothetically and not about any specific boat, and because my main question at this point is whether or not to bother even going to see a boat with wooden masts or a blown engine.
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Old 14-03-2016, 20:38   #42
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

Only a boat of the Highest design/build is worth major upgrades, after 25-30+ years
It must be your dream-boat, and/or a one-of-a-kind.

Changes of rigging/engine is a normal event over time.

Deck refit must be an aesthetic requirement, not structural
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Old 14-03-2016, 21:33   #43
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

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Originally Posted by kelbylinn View Post
Just received an estimate on removing the Teak decks on my 42' GB and coming back with a non-skid awlgrip surface. Without hitting hidden problems, and we have no water intrusion into the interior showing, we were given a number of 10K + for teak removal and average substrate repairs, and around 9K to 10K for the glass work and non-skid awlgrip surface. this was by a local reputable yard in Gulf Shores, AL.
We recently removed the original 31 year old teak deck on our Liberty 458. The aft deck was fine but some sections of the foredeck needed replacement. We replaced it with Ameriteak and love it. Cost $19k.

We removed 1536 screws and had no deck leaks. We refitted 5 prisms and spotfaced all deck fittings and fitted buna n gaskets.

Deck prep was minimal. Remove any loose gel coat, scuff and epoxy fill all screw holes. We finished with gluvit before the new deck was laid.

New PVC teak replacement is better non slip, doesn't fade, looks great and will outlast the boat. Teak less than 3/4" is a stupid option.

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Old 14-03-2016, 23:08   #44
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

I know some handy boat workers who were GIVEN boats who spent more money fixing them up than they would have if they just went into the market and bought one. You need to know what you are getting into. On the other hand.... some people live to tinker with boats. If they didn't have a boat to tinker with they would be useless alcoholics. Fixing boats can be expensive but very therapeutic. .
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Old 15-03-2016, 02:02   #45
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Re: Discounting a boat that needs a new Motor, Mast or Deck

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
Only a boat of the Highest design/build is worth major upgrades, after 25-30+ years
It must be your dream-boat, and/or a one-of-a-kind.
So what's a major upgrade? Re-powering? A new rig? Perhaps someone wants an older, tougher boat for their flavour of sailing, rather than a new fantastic plastic, and feels doing some upgrade work (elecs, engine, sails, rigging) work be worth the cost.

Take a 2014 Beneteau Oceanis 45, retailing at 278,000 / $400,000. You could easily pick up an 80's vintage O'day 40 / CSK / etc etc for 20,000 / $30,000

Even at some of the inflated figures listed here:
- a new engine at 28,000 / $40,000
- a new mast and standing rigging at 20,000 / $30,000
- new sails at 7,000 / $11,500
- new Garmin setup at 5,000 / $7,500

As long as the interior and structure is ok, you could have a very safe, up-to-date boat at a 1/3 the price of a new boat. Then there's the argument - but what about resale?!?!?!? Really, if you're buying boats for the resale, you're in the wrong market friend. A new boat will lose half it's value within the first few years....

And aside from that, how long are you planning on keeping the boat for? If it's long term, what piece of mind would a newer mast, a fresh engine, or good sails and up-to-date chartplotting software provide? We met a guy this past summer (Eric Forsyth - worth looking up) who has sailed close to 240,000nm in his Westsail 42 that he built in the 70's. He's been through three masts, countless sails, a repower (?) plus plenty of other work, and that boat has taken him everywhere, including Antarctica. I'm sure his "major upgrades" have been well worth the investment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
I agree...with older boats, you are often buying the engine, with a boat attached. If the engine is no good, the boat is good for parts, unless you can find someone crazy (like me) who likes to sail with no engine. But the boat would still be "negative value"...meaning that I would only accept it for free.
Maybe this is the case in North America where it seems parts (engines, rigging, etc) are expensive, but in Europe / Australia, a re-power is quite the norm for an older boat. It's possible to speak with engine dealers and buy off the shelf replacement packages for well known brands and if you're doing the work yourself (really, anyone handy can do it), fitting costs are very reasonable.

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