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Old 12-09-2006, 17:38   #16
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Discounts

Thanks for the info everyone.

I will probably get in trouble for this but here goes!

Australian market is very small, with not many good cruising boats so what there is is very overpriced IMHO. We pay twice what you do in the USA for all items at the chandlery so everyone holds off replacing their gear until it breaks (or after based on many boats I have seen) so the specification is usually way below that of a US yacht.

If you want a graphic illustration look at the price of the only Hallberg Rassy 42 for sale in Oz on Yacht Hub then at all the ones in USA and Europe and compare specs and base prices.

We will be full time overseas cruising on whatever we buy so won't be importing the boat anywhere never mind Oz. As well as the taxes you now have to pay $3000-8000 to have it fumigated if you import it, but you can stay for a year with no fumigation, go figure!
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Old 12-09-2006, 17:49   #17
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You don't get in trouble for expressing an opinion...

good luck with your venture... I hope you get the boat that you want, at the price that you want!
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Old 12-09-2006, 18:55   #18
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Discounts as a factor of prices in the market are the same all over the world. When the broker gets hungry they cut better deals. Brokers in the US are just as healthy as any others. If there were a general rule of thumb it would be that if you do the research you can know when the market it tight or or not.

The market as a rule is always correct. When too many people are paying a lot it is because the market is correcting. When they are paying too little then it is doing the same.
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Old 12-09-2006, 20:02   #19
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It is very glad to know that all the prices I see are fairly over inflated..... Here I though I was going to have to work till I was 85 to afford a boat

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Old 13-09-2006, 02:31   #20
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SyndeyTim,
Brokers on this part of the Gulf Coast generally suggest BUC or some other industry measure of the market plus 10% as an asking price. The final sell is generally market less the problems found on the survey. That is if you are a new to yachting and are 'buying a boat today'. A patient buyer with time to spend in an area with a high yacht concentration can often find a suitable boat at well below the market. Prefinancing is generally a must for a bargain because when they show up they disappear in just a few days. Some boats in the Southeast and Gulf Coast, especially between Galveston and Panama City Florida, are being sold cheap because of last year's storms. Good luck.

'An opinion becomes a truth when it leads to an action that satisfies a desire.' Peirce or Reichenbach, I can never remember which.
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Old 14-09-2006, 01:28   #21
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Don't focus on the asking price...

I found in my yacht shopping that it was not a good idea to focus on the asking price.
What I ended up doing was I worked out what size boat I wanted, how much I could afford to pay and what condition I could work with.
I looked at maybe two dozen boats and worked out what what was acceptable.
After a while I got to the stage where I would not bother to go and look at a boat unless it was in my size/condition/price envelope.
I made a few offers that were rejected (some out of hand) but eventually one of my offers was accepted.
The process of accurately assessing the condition is the most important part as you need to know the the cost of making the boat servicable before you can make an offer.
I saw boats that were being offered at three time my assessed value and some that were not worth buying at any price.
I see that you have a boat and are possibly contemplating selling and buying in the good old U. S. of A.
As a seller I would suggest that you present your boat in good operating condition and be prepared to demonstate this to a qualified potential buyer. That is if a buyer is prepared to spend the half day or so that it takes to see a boat then show them the boat, start the engine, take the boat off the mooring, put up the sails and demonstrate the sailing ability and then demonstrate anchoring. Reverse the process to return to the mooring. Give them a cup of coffee brewed on the boat and have a chat. (Don't forget to have some fresh or UHT milk on hand). Brokers have only limited ability to do this so it would mean a private sale. Consider giving the brokers commision to the buyer if you want a quick sale.
Some of the boats that I looked at would have been unable to leave their mooring.
As a seller the ability to qualify buyers is probably the most important skill. You would find clues to the the value of your boat by following up and finding what they eventually brought.
Putting a boat on the market at a premium to its value will only put off potential buyers. If you want top price you will need to track similar boats and assess what they sell for. Do not consider boats that have been on the market for more than a few months as they are possibly overpriced for their condition.
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Old 14-09-2006, 06:10   #22
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I used to think that there were rules, with most boats selling for 10% to 15% less than the asking price, but I think that has changed a lot in recent years. There seems to be a lot more variation these days.

For one thing there are a lot of people entering the sport who are not very knowledgeable. They will often end up paying too much for a boat, dumping a lot of money into fixing the boat the way they want it and expect to get every penny back out of the boat. These boats have unrealistic asking prices. Good brokers will try to get these owners to be more realistic, but I think that the problem is so endemic that even brokers are limited in how far down they are able to get the owners to price the boats because of the comp asking prices are inflated.

When the inventory of good clean boats was pretty small, owners generally got closer to their asking prices. These days these over priced boats will languish on the market for years at a time with the owner not budging or bearly budging on their asking price but eventually getting frustrated and these owners will often accept offers way below thier asking price.

By the same token, some of the more knowlgeable sailors and brokers take the time to research actual sales prices of comprable models, actually visit sisterships for sale to understand relative condition, and try to set their asking prices close to their bottom line sales price.

It is your job to try to figure out what the boat in question is worth in the market place and what it is worth to you, which may be more or less. I try to set an ideal price target and a max price that I will be willing to pay. And then I start the negotiations perhaps 5% below where I think that I ideally want to end up.

Owners generally assume that you will come up a bit and may counter offer somewhere between your offer and above where they want to end up. With a very over priced boat, I try to send a message that I am only willing to come up a small amount by countering the counteroffer with a small implemental increase.

Some owners will bail out of negotiations if my numbers are too far below their asking price, others owners will continue to negotiate if they are anxious to sell the boat and at that point you usually know where you stand. There will be times where you may need to write a position paper that shows the Seller that you know what you are doing and understand the marketplace and that you have a basis beyond low-balling or your own finiancial situation for the price range. When I have had a price limitation I may mention that limit to the buyer such as noting that my offer is based on the max value that I can borrow for that model plus the required downpayment and some of the other boats on the market that I can buy at that price.

It doesn't always work. Be prepared to move on or pay more than you want.

Regards,
Jeff
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Old 14-09-2006, 07:10   #23
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Recently read about a fellow from England who bought a Gulfstar 50 deeply discounted. He did some refit work here, had fun visiting the US, and then sailed her home by himself. All up he probably bought the boat for $150k US or ~ 120k Euro. Can't remember the name of the website.

When we sell we'll probably sail it to Europe and sell it there if the market is like it is today. We bought for about 50% of original asking price.

Makes it worth taking a look in the US.

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Old 15-09-2006, 03:17   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff H
... It is your job to try to figure out what the boat in question is worth in the market place and what it is worth to you, which may be more or less. I try to set an ideal price target and a max price that I will be willing to pay. And then I start the negotiations perhaps 5% below where I think that I ideally want to end up ...
Regards,
Jeff
What Jeff H said better.
Anything's only "worth" what you, or someone else, will pay for it. Don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings with a fair (to you) offer.
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Old 15-09-2006, 10:08   #25
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new boat

What about a new boat?
Is it common to ask the broker for a discount on the catalog price?

Thanks
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Old 15-09-2006, 10:21   #26
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From my recent experience buying a new boat is now like buying a new car. I bought two new boats in the late eighties, both were direct from the manufacturer and I paid list. Two years ago I bought a new boat from a dealer. The price was negotiable. You get a greater discount if you order a lot of dealer installed options. My dealer had a very competent commissioning crew of about twenty employees. All the add-ons kept these people busy and were more profitable hence the greater discount.
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Old 17-09-2006, 20:42   #27
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My wife and I just signed a contract today. It's about finding a place where everyone is happy. This time it was a seller, my wife and I. It isn't always easy but if you think like that you can get get there. If you think you can "out deal" the seller you are probably going to be disappointed. Any seller that can't ell you are fooling around isn't very smart. Any seller that own a boat worth buying isn't all that stupid either. Everyone has a motive and listening to the other person gets you closer. Don't try to buy a boat you don't really like.

If you like a boat and you think you really want it then the seller can tell that. It's not about hiding the fact that you like it. It is about finding the way you both can be happy.

You don't give up anything when you negotiate. You find a way to win.
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Old 19-09-2006, 02:29   #28
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Found it

Buying a discounted boat here in the US for export/

http://monkeysausage.com/http://monkeysausage.com/
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:40   #29
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When I was looking for my boat, I visited a Bristol 47.7 that was listed at $275K in April of this year. It is now listed at $195K while similar boats of its kind are asking $325K.

Much depends on the seller's motivations and personal financial situation. Doing homework on comparables is key. In many markets another pricing factor is how close one is to a winter storage season. Many sellers want to avoid having to pay storage and winterizing fees.

There is never any harm in a low ball offer. My first offer on the boat I own now ticked off the seller so badly that instead of a counter offer he simply refused to respond. We are now best of friends.
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:50   #30
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Much depends on the seller's motivations and personal financial situation... In many markets another pricing factor is how close one is to a winter storage season... There is never any harm in a low ball offer.
In 2001, we accepted a "low-ball" offer on "Southbound" in order to avoid a lengthy owner-absent ownership.
By accepting a little less, we avoided:
storage costs
maintenance costs*
potential hurricane damage

* Being absent-owners, Southbound’s value and attractiveness would have deteriorated at the dock, unless we contracted for regular cleaning and stewardship.
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