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Old 16-10-2013, 08:46   #1
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Directional stability expectations...

Hello I am wondering how my skeg hung rudder will compar to my other boats... My full keel folkboat I've sailed across the Georgian bay could hold a strait cors without much attention, she didn't need an auto pilot.... On the other hand my Grampian which has a spade rudder needed constant attention, I couldn't let the tiller a minute to pull my sails up without her rounding up... I haven't sailed my hinterhoeller yet and wondering just how stable would she be?

As you know I've recently obtained a hunter 34, I've sold my Grampian and will keep only one of the smaller boats folkboat vs hinterhoeller ...
Look wise they score even, size I don't care much, sea motion and stability is what I need for solo voyaging... What do you think?
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Old 16-10-2013, 09:18   #2
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

keep the boat you like best and work on your sail trim
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:36   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
keep the boat you like best and work on your sail trim
This seems like a simplistic response, not saying your wrong but there's more to it then sail trim... The Grampian is a very good sail, however when you leave port and hoist your first sail be it main or jib, the boat turns on you before you return to tiller no mater how fast... Also when the wind changes whatever sail trim you've achieved to balance the boat needs to be adjusted again... The folk just keeps on track and is far more forgiving to wind changes...
Right now I absolutely love the folk and think she's the essence of sailing, I'm only wondering if my hr28 would be as stable, cause if she is her little bit of extra room would make my choice easier ...
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Old 09-11-2013, 19:31   #4
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Some very good sail boats need constant helm. The usual solution is an auto-pilot. The common trade offs between a boat that tracks like a train and one that can spin on a dime usually come down to tight quarter maneuverability-ease of tacking and speed particularly to weather. I am a single hand performance sailor and want a boat that is highly responsive I like the helm on my J/100(33 ft) much more than the six meter full keel I have sailed. When I want to sail a straight line with no fine adjustments the auto pilot goes on and I kick back it also goes on when I raise or drop sail. Its all a matter of style as is much of sailing.
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Old 09-11-2013, 21:29   #5
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Incentive, I think you have too many boats.

Are you locking the tiller/wheel? Poor-man's autopilot for short periods.
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Old 09-11-2013, 21:52   #6
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

If you are referring to me regarding too many boots no way I am down to four or five. When I lived on eastern shore of the Chesapeake I had 10. As long as I have the time and $ to look after them the more the merrier. When I was younger I could use three boats in one day now that I am over 75 one a day with a rare twosie.
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Old 09-11-2013, 21:57   #7
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incentive View Post
This seems like a simplistic response, not saying your wrong but there's more to it then sail trim... The Grampian is a very good sail, however when you leave port and hoist your first sail be it main or jib, the boat turns on you before you return to tiller no mater how fast... Also when the wind changes whatever sail trim you've achieved to balance the boat needs to be adjusted again... The folk just keeps on track and is far more forgiving to wind changes...
Right now I absolutely love the folk and think she's the essence of sailing, I'm only wondering if my hr28 would be as stable, cause if she is her little bit of extra room would make my choice easier ...
My finned keel IOR will hold a course for a long time w/o even touching the wheel. Just lock the rudder in place and trim the sails. Then fine tune the rudder.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:49   #8
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

I think the difference is not how well they keep the course (most modern designs drive a better line than a long keel boat) but rather in HOW they get off the track. On a long-keel one it will be a long swiping curve. On a fin / spade rudder it may be a tight(er) curve. A long keel boat buys you more time to react and correct things. A fine keel / spade rudder may wipe out before you come from the bow to the cockpit.

b.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:36   #9
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I think the difference is not how well they keep the course (most modern designs drive a better line than a long keel boat) but rather in HOW they get off the track. On a long-keel one it will be a long swiping curve. On a fin / spade rudder it may be a tight(er) curve. A long keel boat buys you more time to react and correct things. A fine keel / spade rudder may wipe out before you come from the bow to the cockpit.

b.
Exactly my experience when crossing Lake Huron on both the Grampian and folk, however it was more difficult to trim the Grampian and still the helm needed constant attention and next to impossible to set tiller pilot under sail... This boat is sensitive to wind change and weight shift when walking on deck, this boat is said to be an excellent sail with good handling in most wind condition.... I've spent days offshore and always felt safe even in 35kn winds, but this only if your sitting at the helm.
If this is how most fin&spade behave then that configuration is not for me....
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:52   #10
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
My finned keel IOR will hold a course for a long time w/o even touching the wheel. Just lock the rudder in place and trim the sails. Then fine tune the rudder.
you cant quite compare your boat , as the same with mine, to that of the normal boat and underwater design.. The early designs of the IOR boats are very efficent in moving throu the water.. You'll find, as you probably know, your boat is capable of doing far more with less effort than many other boats of the same size and weight..
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Old 18-11-2013, 19:04   #11
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Each boat is different, and may track differently in different conditions. We have a fin-keel/spade rudder J/36 which will track upwind for 5 to 10 minutes by herself if the wind/wave/and sail trim conditions are right, with no one at the helm and no lock or brake on the wheel. Downwind... no. On a reach... maybe. You will have to try out your boats in various situations and see which ones will work best for you. Though I would think the skeg-hung rudder might provide the best directional stability, there are too many variables for us to guess what the right answer for you might be.
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Old 18-11-2013, 19:20   #12
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
you cant quite compare your boat , as the same with mine, to that of the normal boat and underwater design.. The early designs of the IOR boats are very efficent in moving throu the water.. You'll find, as you probably know, your boat is capable of doing far more with less effort than many other boats of the same size and weight..
My boat thanks you for the compliment!
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Old 18-11-2013, 19:31   #13
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incentive View Post
Hello I am wondering how my skeg hung rudder will compar to my other boats... My full keel folkboat I've sailed across the Georgian bay could hold a strait cors without much attention, she didn't need an auto pilot.... On the other hand my Grampian which has a spade rudder needed constant attention, I couldn't let the tiller a minute to pull my sails up without her rounding up... I haven't sailed my hinterhoeller yet and wondering just how stable would she be?

As you know I've recently obtained a hunter 34, I've sold my Grampian and will keep only one of the smaller boats folkboat vs hinterhoeller ...
Look wise they score even, size I don't care much, sea motion and stability is what I need for solo voyaging... What do you think?
No such thing on my Grampian 26.
With a 135 jib and main trimmed it just about sails itself on Georgian Bay.
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Old 18-11-2013, 20:08   #14
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

The comments about Grampian 30 caught me off guard as this is the first I have heard about it. All reports say that the 30 is a great and stable sailor and can handle the Great Lakes just fine. A lot of boat for the money according to Classic Plastic! I'm looking at one now and plan on single handing often...
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Old 18-11-2013, 20:24   #15
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Re: Directional stability expectations...

bah! that's a 26 isn't it? Dad had one for years - loved it in the Keys.
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