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Old 28-02-2016, 07:23   #61
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello James,

The Santorin is the replacement to the Maramu just like the Super Maramu was the descendant of the Mango.

Most Santorins were ketch rigged but a few are sloops... I would not like a sloop as the standing rigging is wide and the lazy upwind performance is unlikely to be better.

Regarding the sail setup of the Maramu.. keep in mind their purpose.. to sail RTW with a retired couple as sole crew. More roach?? Why? In the Amel community, a statement is oft repeated: "Own the boat for a full year before you think about making changes.." This is a wise approach IMO.
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Old 28-02-2016, 12:36   #62
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Hello James,

The Santorin is the replacement to the Maramu just like the Super Maramu was the descendant of the Mango.

Most Santorins were ketch rigged but a few are sloops... I would not like a sloop as the standing rigging is wide and the lazy upwind performance is unlikely to be better.

Regarding the sail setup of the Maramu.. keep in mind their purpose.. to sail RTW with a retired couple as sole crew. More roach?? Why? In the Amel community, a statement is oft repeated: "Own the boat for a full year before you think about making changes.." This is a wise approach IMO.
One of the reasons that I like the Amels is because of the Ketch rig so no interest in the sloop. I can see how the ketch rig fits into the design philosophy of the boats quite well.

As to the not making any changes until knowing the boat well, I agree completely and have followed that advice for most of my life already! In this case however the factory changed things by going from the main/mizzen using conventional slides to the in mast furling on the Maramu in 1985. The data I have come up with shows that on the mainsail went from 312 square feet down to 247. I assume that there would be a similar % loss of area in the mizzen as well which I assume would be a significant performance hit in light air, would it not? If room existed without hitting the backstay, the addition of some roach could add a bit more sail area..that was my thinking. Quite a number of the owners of Maramu's without the in mast furling that I have inquired about have elected to go to a fully battened main and mizzen but I don't know if any roach was added.

There appears to be an additional ton of ballast added to the Super Maramu from the data I have found while the total displacement actually dropped from the Mango. The SM mast is also shown to be 1 foot taller. It is interesting to see how the Amels have evolved over the years!

Best,

James
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Old 15-05-2016, 10:51   #63
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Hello James, The Santorin is the replacement to the Maramu just like the Super Maramu was the descendant of the Mango. Most Santorins were ketch rigged but a few are sloops... I would not like a sloop as the standing rigging is wide and the lazy upwind performance is unlikely to be better. Regarding the sail setup of the Maramu.. keep in mind their purpose.. to sail RTW with a retired couple as sole crew. More roach?? Why? In the Amel community, a statement is oft repeated: "Own the boat for a full year before you think about making changes.." This is a wise approach IMO. :biggrin:
Hi ! Amels are very very well built sailboat but... they have relatively small cockpit for living in the tropics; moreover you can find 3 bedrooms layout sailboats in that size range which means that when the day comes & it will, your kids ask for their own room, you won't have to sell your sailboat & go hunting for a new one. A couple of friends live here in St-Martin with their two daughters aboard a Jeanneau Sunkiss 47 & each girl has her cabin
Good luck!
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Old 23-09-2016, 14:07   #64
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Re: Difference between Amel models

What about the current Amel 55 and 64 that is listed on the Amel site? Any inputs? I can't seem to find much review on the 64...
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Old 24-09-2016, 11:49   #65
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Few of either type available on the "used" market. As these are expensive boats, potential buyers contact Amel directly or their agents to discuss their needs.

If in the US, call Joel Potter, the best qualified guy in the US or if in EU, call Amel directly. I believe they have demo models for both boats at each location.

GL.
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Old 24-09-2016, 12:13   #66
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by seidulas;2219842[COLOR="Blue"
]What about the current Amel 55 and 64 that is listed on the Amel site? Any inputs? I can't seem to find much review on the 64...[/COLOR]
Hi! You'll find a lot of comments in...French But I'm really not convinced by the 54 ketch rig as you can get hydraulic or electric furling gears with a cutter rig which is the best set up for single-handed/short-handed crews. When I was getting my Ericson 34 ready for my passage to the West Indies, at Bock Marine I met an american sailor who was working on his SECOND Amel 54 ! He had done a round the world cruise with a first one & bought a second one after having sold his first... I assume he had only good things to say about it ! If I could afford a 64, there are half a dozen sailboats that I would purchase before an Amel 64. I wouldn't buy a teak deck sailboat for the tropics, & I would get a sailboat with a more "open" cockpit... but it's just a question of personal experience & taste, so go for it as they keep their resale value quite well The galley layout is far better on the 64 as you can use it on both tack, not so on the 54 One thing is sure, if I ever get the kind of money needed to buy an Amel 54 or 64 I would get the one (64) with a roll-in-roll-out garage in the transom for the dinghy ! Cheers PS: When it was first presented at the Nice boat show, six were ordered, probably by Amel owners who wanted to "upgrade" to something bigger but who knew firsthand Amel's quality & reliability !
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Old 24-09-2016, 16:31   #67
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hey there:

I went through a similar experience once I found the Amels, I was not able to afford the newer models, but fell in love with the older Maramu's (46ft vs Super Maramu's 53ft).

Spent 4yrs rebuilding the cosmetics and boat systems, and now we have a boat hull that is built like a brick **** house and a modern interior. We couldn't be happier and best part is replacement value survey was made recently at +$900K, and we spent under $250K total including all upgrades.

Check it out here: http://svcerulean.com

Happy to help anyone interested in one of these magnificent world circumnavigation ready vessels.

Cheers,
Jer
Cerulean - Maramu Hull #105 '82
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Old 24-09-2016, 20:28   #68
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Re: Difference between Amel models

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Originally Posted by ALAIN97133 View Post
I assume he had only good things to say about it ! If I could afford a 64, there are half a dozen sailboats that I would purchase before an Amel 64. I wouldn't buy a teak deck sailboat for the tropics, & I would get a sailboat with a more "open" cockpit... but it's just a question of personal experience & taste
There is no wood teak on Amels.
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Old 25-09-2016, 06:17   #69
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Re: Difference between Amel models

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Originally Posted by ARumRunner View Post
There is no wood teak on Amels.
Hi! This was true 'till the 64. Before, all Amel sailboats had synthetic look alike "teak" decks which I've always found "kitch". I would rather have Treadmaster*, real teak or nothing. But for the 64, being their flag ship, they felt obliged to offer both real or look alike teak, depending on the taste & experience of the guys with deep pockets who can afford one of them By the way if one's need an experienced crew or skipper to sail an Amel 55 or 64 from France to God knows where, give me a ring I've skippered that passage several times, once on a Swan 43... Except for the fishing**, that passage was real cool/fast Cheers !
* I've just discovered that Treadmaster is making teak look alike . Maybe they're the one who have provided Amel (?) from the begining.
** The American owner had told me that he had all the gears needed to fish offshore, except that the second dorado we hooked, out of Gran Canaria, escaped with the only hook we could find on board
https://www.treadmaster.co.uk/produc...-atlanteak-tkw
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Old 25-09-2016, 12:07   #70
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Definitely above my price range too, but I'm really curious about the size of their engine room.
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Old 26-09-2016, 03:07   #71
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermanns View Post
Hey there:

I went through a similar experience once I found the Amels, I was not able to afford the newer models, but fell in love with the older Maramu's (46ft vs Super Maramu's 53ft).

Spent 4yrs rebuilding the cosmetics and boat systems, and now we have a boat hull that is built like a brick **** house and a modern interior. We couldn't be happier and best part is replacement value survey was made recently at +$900K, and we spent under $250K total including all upgrades.

Check it out here: http://svcerulean.com

Happy to help anyone interested in one of these magnificent world circumnavigation ready vessels.

Cheers,
Jer
Cerulean - Maramu Hull #105 '82
If you got a survey valuing your boat for 900K, I would find a way to sink it.. quick before they change their minds!

:-)
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Old 26-09-2016, 03:09   #72
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Re: Difference between Amel models

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Definitely above my price range too, but I'm really curious about the size of their engine room.
The most volume "no problem" engine room in Amels is the one on the Super Maramu. They crimped (a bit) on the 54's, 55's and 64's.

GL
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Old 05-06-2017, 14:38   #73
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Re: Difference between Amel models

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Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Hello Sam,

Regarding your query:

From 1989 to 1998 came the Super Maramu.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000 Red Line ... for the US market

1. Hulls are all the same except.

SM initially had 4 +1 batteries located in the engine compartment. Overtime most owners brought this up to 8 +1 batteries in 2 different compartments. The last units had 10+1 batteries

From about 1992 (don't quote me), the batteries migrated to under the passage berth on the starboard side of the boat. This served 2 purposes: reduce the heat source the batteries were exposed to and rebalance the boats as the SM typically has a list to port... too much gear on that side.... During the refit of my early boat, my batteries were moved to below the passage berth.

2. There are NO black water tanks on the early SM's. 2 are installed in the SM2000's. I am installing a single one in the forward heads only.

3. Minor differences in the sea chest due changes in the engine bay.

4. The SM head sail foil has 2 throats for sail hoisting. If you want to fly both the genoa and the "ballooner" during a long downwind, you have the use a single halyard for both sails (not good idea) or 2 halyards, one for each sail. In both cases, you cannot furl as the spinnaker halyard used for hoisting the ballooner wraps around the furler... You must release the ballooner/spin halyard and bring the "ballooner" to deck then furl the remaining genoa. That is a serious PITA if you ask me. I am reviewing my options on this one; I can get a 3 throat foil with an Amel patented "mouse" which allows furling the sails together on the furler or I can go for a "top down furler" with a cruising genaker. Second solution is double the price.

5. The SM has 2 zone AC. (Aft cabin and saloon) The SM2000 has 3 zone AC (Aft cabin, saloon and forward cabin). Mine now has 3 zone all new Webasto :-)

6. Watermakers were somewhat low output at first. Old SM' had a 25 l/hr production rate.... New 2000's have 50 or 60 l/hr. Changing mine to a Dessalator DUO AC/DC 100 l/hr dual voltage unit 24 V or 220V. Apparently delivers 160 l/hr if the membranes are in good nick.

7. Gensets were a 2 cylinder (3000 rpm) German diesel unit but these were problematic. Then came proper Onan 6.5 kw 3 cylinder (1500 rpm) units. A major improvement. Mine has the 1500 rpm unit. (It is so quiet that I've left the boat with it running...) Some minor in service problems but nothing difficult... the water pump">raw water pump tends to leak.

8. Main engines: Initially Perkins 80 HP with TC. Morphed into Volvo TDM 22 ... exactly the same engine, different name. Later SM 2000's received a Yanmar 100 HP unit. I buy the Perkins rotables... 1/4 to 1/2 price of Volvo!!

9. The earliest SM's had an alu case for the dual 90 degree engine gearbox. This proved a disastrous choice of material and Amel retrofitted all early boats with a cast iron casing within 2 years. Although it is a practical solution for these boats, this 90 +90 gearbox is expensive to replace (10000 I am told) and requires shaft seal changes every 800 hours and a possible Wear Out Bearing (WOB) change if grooves are forming on the shaft. Not difficult to do but requires a haul out. Most Amel owners carry a 36 MM wrench and a long length of pipe to remove the retaining nut off the housing ... part of the fun. Do the service right and you should not need a replacement.

I trolled the For Sale websites yesterday. Some nice oldies waiting for you. Not quite on your budget but you get what you pay for.... when you buy, do so from a broker who knows the boat. There are 2 good ones in EU and I passed their names to you earlier. But they are still brokers... so get a surveyor who knows Amels. I can recommend one in EU, he found every wrinkle on Eleuthera... :-)

GL
Hello GL, Eleutera,
Can you please let me know the 2 good Brokers and the one surveyor you mentioned?
There are 2 good ones in EU and I passed their names to you earlier. But they are still brokers... so get a surveyor who knows Amels. I can recommend one in EU, he found every wrinkle on Eleuthera... :-)

Thanks
RW
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Old 05-06-2017, 14:51   #74
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello MOMO-SARUWA and welcome,

As an introduction, GL is short form for Good Luck...

Eleuthera is my boat's name. Please send me a private message and I will give you the names of the people who I think do the best "Amel" work in the EU.

Best regards
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Old 22-06-2017, 06:35   #75
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Re: Difference between Amel models

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The most volume "no problem" engine room in Amels is the one on the Super Maramu. They crimped (a bit) on the 54's, 55's and 64's.

GL
Fascinating thread, definitely archiving it for later reference. Registered on the site just to comment here.

Been fascinated by Amel boats. Continuing to do research and dream. I've seen a number of references to the 54's. However, based on https://www.boat-specs.com/amel and other resources, there've been 53' Amel Super Maramu (and the 2000 version of it), and the newer Amel 55. Nowhere can I find details of this mythical to me 54. Can you point me in the right direction?
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