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Old 14-04-2015, 11:21   #46
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Eleuthera 2014,

You mentioned you know some good Amel-knowledgeable brokers and a surveyor in the EU. Would you mind providing those references. I'm currently looking for a SM or SM2k in the EU and will need a good surveyor. Thanks!

Dlj305
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Old 14-04-2015, 21:08   #47
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hi Dlj305,

I sent you a PM.

:-)
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Old 18-12-2015, 02:12   #48
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello Eleuthera,
I was looking for information about Amel's and came across your comments. I'm interested in an Amel Mango 53 from 1985 and you mentioned you know surveyor's in EU. The Mango is located in Spain. Could you give addresses so I can get in contact with a good surveyor for Amel's. Thanks very much
Regards
Uli



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Hello Sam,

Regarding your query:

From 1989 to 1998 came the Super Maramu.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000 Red Line ... for the US market

1. Hulls are all the same except.

SM initially had 4 +1 batteries located in the engine compartment. Overtime most owners brought this up to 8 +1 batteries in 2 different compartments. The last units had 10+1 batteries

From about 1992 (don't quote me), the batteries migrated to under the passage berth on the starboard side of the boat. This served 2 purposes: reduce the heat source the batteries were exposed to and rebalance the boats as the SM typically has a list to port... too much gear on that side.... During the refit of my early boat, my batteries were moved to below the passage berth.

2. There are NO black water tanks on the early SM's. 2 are installed in the SM2000's. I am installing a single one in the forward heads only.

3. Minor differences in the sea chest due changes in the engine bay.

4. The SM head sail foil has 2 throats for sail hoisting. If you want to fly both the genoa and the "ballooner" during a long downwind, you have the use a single halyard for both sails (not good idea) or 2 halyards, one for each sail. In both cases, you cannot furl as the spinnaker halyard used for hoisting the ballooner wraps around the furler... You must release the ballooner/spin halyard and bring the "ballooner" to deck then furl the remaining genoa. That is a serious PITA if you ask me. I am reviewing my options on this one; I can get a 3 throat foil with an Amel patented "mouse" which allows furling the sails together on the furler or I can go for a "top down furler" with a cruising genaker. Second solution is double the price.

5. The SM has 2 zone AC. (Aft cabin and saloon) The SM2000 has 3 zone AC (Aft cabin, saloon and forward cabin). Mine now has 3 zone all new Webasto :-)

6. Watermakers were somewhat low output at first. Old SM' had a 25 l/hr production rate.... New 2000's have 50 or 60 l/hr. Changing mine to a Dessalator DUO AC/DC 100 l/hr dual voltage unit 24 V or 220V. Apparently delivers 160 l/hr if the membranes are in good nick.

7. Gensets were a 2 cylinder (3000 rpm) German diesel unit but these were problematic. Then came proper Onan 6.5 kw 3 cylinder (1500 rpm) units. A major improvement. Mine has the 1500 rpm unit. (It is so quiet that I've left the boat with it running...) Some minor in service problems but nothing difficult... the water pump">raw water pump tends to leak.

8. Main engines: Initially Perkins 80 HP with TC. Morphed into Volvo TDM 22 ... exactly the same engine, different name. Later SM 2000's received a Yanmar 100 HP unit. I buy the Perkins rotables... 1/4 to 1/2 price of Volvo!!

9. The earliest SM's had an alu case for the dual 90 degree engine gearbox. This proved a disastrous choice of material and Amel retrofitted all early boats with a cast iron casing within 2 years. Although it is a practical solution for these boats, this 90 +90 gearbox is expensive to replace (10000 I am told) and requires shaft seal changes every 800 hours and a possible Wear Out Bearing (WOB) change if grooves are forming on the shaft. Not difficult to do but requires a haul out. Most Amel owners carry a 36 MM wrench and a long length of pipe to remove the retaining nut off the housing ... part of the fun. Do the service right and you should not need a replacement.

I trolled the For Sale websites yesterday. Some nice oldies waiting for you. Not quite on your budget but you get what you pay for.... when you buy, do so from a broker who knows the boat. There are 2 good ones in EU and I passed their names to you earlier. But they are still brokers... so get a surveyor who knows Amels. I can recommend one in EU, he found every wrinkle on Eleuthera... :-)

GL
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Old 20-12-2015, 01:23   #49
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello UliS,

PM sent. Would you send me the link to the boat itself please?

Good luck and what a nice Xmas present from you to you!!
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Old 20-12-2015, 17:25   #50
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Has anyone put together a list or comparison of the key feature differences for the models?

Warrior90's post got me thinking something with data, numbers is good, but also some comparative statements, like "engine room is tighter on A vs. B and battery space is X vs. Z.

Also, something simple like: "Santorin was designed for....while the Mango was designed for.......while the Maramu was...."

I have not seen anything simple that gives quick comparison.

I don't mean just specs like LOA.
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Old 20-12-2015, 22:17   #51
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Re: Difference between Amel models

I just came across this thread so came a bit late to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentP View Post

We still haven't figured out the advantage (if any) with the special whisker poles, they are very hard to set in my opinion. This could be a point for improvement.

Bent, S/Y Karma
I'm didn't think the poles on the Mango were much different than the Super Maramu's so this comment surprised me. I don't even bother getting my wife out of bed anymore to set ours. I pretty much do it singlehanded all the time.

I've also set (and drop) the twin headsails numerous times singlehanded. I was also a bit surprised at Eleuthra's comments about not being able to furl his when they're both up. I regularly furl the two sails together when the wind picks up. Did the earlier SM's (ours is a '94) not have the locking gate assembly for the Ballooner on the top bearing?

I think it might be a matter of technique. For what it's worth, I found some pretty good Operating Manual's in the Amel Owners Group files that described both operations quite well. Those are what I now use.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 21-12-2015, 00:06   #52
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Could you post a link for the pretty good operating oanual's in the Amel Owners Group files. Thank you very much.
UliS
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Old 21-12-2015, 00:16   #53
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Re: Difference between Amel models

I don't have it handy, but the group is a closed Yahoo group (keeps it more focused for owners and the SPAM down I believe), so a posted link here wouldn't do any good anyway.

It's a great resource for owners though if you get one or are seriously looking.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 21-12-2015, 00:35   #54
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Ok, thanks Mark. I will look into it. I'm still looking to find a nice and affordable Amel. Its sort of hard ...
Regards
UliS
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Old 21-12-2015, 00:37   #55
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post

4. The SM head sail foil has 2 throats for sail hoisting. If you want to fly both the genoa and the "ballooner" during a long downwind, you have the use a single halyard for both sails (not good idea) or 2 halyards, one for each sail. In both cases, you cannot furl as the spinnaker halyard used for hoisting the ballooner wraps around the furler... You must release the ballooner/spin halyard and bring the "ballooner" to deck then furl the remaining genoa. That is a serious PITA if you ask me. I am reviewing my options on this one; I can get a 3 throat foil with an Amel patented "mouse" which allows furling the sails together on the furler or I can go for a "top down furler" with a cruising genaker. Second solution is double the price.


9. The earliest SM's had an alu case for the dual 90 degree engine gearbox. This proved a disastrous choice of material and Amel retrofitted all early boats with a cast iron casing within 2 years. Although it is a practical solution for these boats, this 90 +90 gearbox is expensive to replace (10000 I am told) and requires shaft seal changes every 800 hours and a possible Wear Out Bearing (WOB) change if grooves are forming on the shaft. Not difficult to do but requires a haul out. Most Amel owners carry a 36 MM wrench and a long length of pipe to remove the retaining nut off the housing ... part of the fun. Do the service right and you should not need a replacement.

GL
Eleuthra, I just reread your post and realized you've only got two slots on your foil, so now understand your issue. Interesting. I didn't relaize the change to a 3 slotted foil and the top bearing lock assembly was a mid-production change! That's too bad. Rather than a change have you looked at a furling gennaker or Code 0? I've met a few SM's who've done that just in front of the genoa. They both seemed to like it and would sometimes run it and the genoa out together, although one commented he found he had to be really careful when furling to make sure they didn't catch the other as they were so close. I like the twin headsails so haven't looked that closely at the others.

Second regarding the U-drive setup. My was a bit worried at first, but now that I've had it for a while, I'm not as worried about it, plus it really does seem to keep the prop out of trouble with junk and lines in the water being tucked right behind the keel like that. Like you, I just replace the seals and wear out bushing every time I haul (~$200) and keep a spare on hand. Overall, not a bad job and in the long run probably not a lot different than maintenance of packing boxes, cutlass bearings, etc. on a more conventional setup.

When are you heading west across the Atlantic? We're in NZ a the moment and loving it!

Mark
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Old 21-12-2015, 09:04   #56
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello Mark,

Like you, setting the poles is a cinch... I don't wake my GF either

I suspect your foil might have been changed as the 3 foil units saw first use in the SM2000 IIRC. I have no problem living with the 2 throats on my foil; if the weather is stable, I hoist both genoa and ballooner on the genoa halyard then furl one inside the other... However, if the weather is unstable, I hoist the ballooner on its own halyard and can then drop it quickly if needed... must be prudent though because you cannot reduce sail area unless you drop the ballooner. It all works well though... sure you agree.

Regarding travels, we are wintering in Sicily repairing the botched jobs done on the boat by the Turk shipyard doing the refit! We will cross to the Caribbean next fall . The work is progressing well and we enjoy her comforts more each day. Our Webasto 42 K BTU reverse cycle AC is keeping her indoors toasty warm... she is quite a Bourgeoise.. French one at that.

We also expect to spend loads of time in NZ.
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Old 21-12-2015, 11:55   #57
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Re: Difference between Amel models

I don't know. I'm pretty sure my 3 slot foil is original, but I could be wrong. It predated the SM2000 for sure though as I looked at a 1997 and a 1998 and both had the 3 slot foil.

Maybe we'll catch up in an anchorage somewhere sometime.

Regards,
Mark
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Old 22-12-2015, 03:23   #58
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello J-P,
you mentioned a Webasto 42 K BTU reverse cycle AC. Did you installed it yourself or at a marina and was it very expensive? I think its a wonderful idea to have 2 in 1 device. Does it cool as good as it heats? Thanks and have a wonderful christmas time.
Regards
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Old 22-12-2015, 09:14   #59
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello Uli,

We love the Webasto. It is the 42K BTU chiller unit with three zone distribution.

We changed the air outlets for better distribution.. for instance, our salon cold air outlet was at the foot of the oven freezing the chef's feet. The outlets are now fore and aft of the dining table on the port side. The cooling worked very well last summer allowing us to keep the boat at 27C inside when the outside temperature was 44C... It was very hot!

We have been living aboard in port in Sicily and the temperatures have gone down to 8C and we've had no difficulty keeping 22.5C aboard.

However.... the main feed pump just failed 1 hour ago :-( I will call the Webasto people in the morning as the system is new.

Good luck in your search
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Old 26-02-2016, 05:18   #60
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by UliS View Post
Ok, thanks Mark. I will look into it. I'm still looking to find a nice and affordable Amel. Its sort of hard ...
Regards
UliS
I note that the pre 1985 Maramu's had more sail area since these boats did not have the in mast furling. I was thinking that with some full battens and a little roach that the sail shape could be improved some.

Can anyone give me some idea of how much faster the larger Super Maramus are in average MPD over a long passage versus the smaller Maramu? Also, was the Santorin a performance improvement over the Maramu?

Thanks,
James
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