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Old 01-12-2014, 16:28   #31
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Check out the Santorin, at 46ft still a substantial go anywhere cruiser. Though based in Ireland we've taken our Santorin to Norway and now to the med. When surveyed before purchase 8 years ago, the lasting impression on the surveyor was the built in safety features. 4 watertight bulkheads, 2 solid watertight doors, plus a number of water tight compartments as standard, is not very common, even in a custom build, let alone a production boat. I think I can honestly say, that if an Amel owner was given the choice of a new boat or an upgrade, they would pick an Amel.
Regards. Joe

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Old 01-12-2014, 16:52   #32
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Re: Difference between Amel models

I think I can honestly say, that if an Amel owner was given the choice of a new boat or an upgrade, they would pick an Amel.
Regards. Joe

Sent from my ME173X using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app[/QUOTE]

And they are not slow. Our Amel Super Maramu sailed from New Zealand to Raivavae in the Austral Islands this year 2400 miles in under 14 days - that's 170 miles a day average...3 days we did over 200/day...and this is not sailing downwind ! We are VERY happy with this boat, the well thought out systems, strength, seaworthiness, comfort...the list goes on.
I have never met an unhappy Amel owner....they are all enthusiasts.
A previous poster suggested Oysters - compare what you get for the money.
I was looking at Oysters before buying Elyse and I can tell you that there's a lot more value for money in an Amel than an Oyster.
You can't go wrong with Amel...just make sure you have a good surveyor, best one who has done Amels before.
And when you do buy one there is a wonderful owners group on Yahoo packed with information and owner interaction.
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Old 14-12-2014, 16:46   #33
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Re: Difference between Amel models

While I've been looking, I've come across the SM, the SM 2000 and the SM 2000 Red Line. What are the differences between these models?
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Old 14-12-2014, 19:05   #34
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello Sam,

Regarding your query:

From 1989 to 1998 came the Super Maramu.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000.
From 1999 to 2005 came the SM 2000 Red Line ... for the US market

1. Hulls are all the same except.

SM initially had 4 +1 batteries located in the engine compartment. Overtime most owners brought this up to 8 +1 batteries in 2 different compartments. The last units had 10+1 batteries

From about 1992 (don't quote me), the batteries migrated to under the passage berth on the starboard side of the boat. This served 2 purposes: reduce the heat source the batteries were exposed to and rebalance the boats as the SM typically has a list to port... too much gear on that side.... During the refit of my early boat, my batteries were moved to below the passage berth.

2. There are NO black water tanks on the early SM's. 2 are installed in the SM2000's. I am installing a single one in the forward heads only.

3. Minor differences in the sea chest due changes in the engine bay.

4. The SM head sail foil has 2 throats for sail hoisting. If you want to fly both the genoa and the "ballooner" during a long downwind, you have the use a single halyard for both sails (not good idea) or 2 halyards, one for each sail. In both cases, you cannot furl as the spinnaker halyard used for hoisting the ballooner wraps around the furler... You must release the ballooner/spin halyard and bring the "ballooner" to deck then furl the remaining genoa. That is a serious PITA if you ask me. I am reviewing my options on this one; I can get a 3 throat foil with an Amel patented "mouse" which allows furling the sails together on the furler or I can go for a "top down furler" with a cruising genaker. Second solution is double the price.

5. The SM has 2 zone AC. (Aft cabin and saloon) The SM2000 has 3 zone AC (Aft cabin, saloon and forward cabin). Mine now has 3 zone all new Webasto :-)

6. Watermakers were somewhat low output at first. Old SM' had a 25 l/hr production rate.... New 2000's have 50 or 60 l/hr. Changing mine to a Dessalator DUO AC/DC 100 l/hr dual voltage unit 24 V or 220V. Apparently delivers 160 l/hr if the membranes are in good nick.

7. Gensets were a 2 cylinder (3000 rpm) German diesel unit but these were problematic. Then came proper Onan 6.5 kw 3 cylinder (1500 rpm) units. A major improvement. Mine has the 1500 rpm unit. (It is so quiet that I've left the boat with it running...) Some minor in service problems but nothing difficult... the raw water pump tends to leak.

8. Main engines: Initially Perkins 80 HP with TC. Morphed into Volvo TDM 22 ... exactly the same engine, different name. Later SM 2000's received a Yanmar 100 HP unit. I buy the Perkins rotables... 1/4 to 1/2 price of Volvo!!

9. The earliest SM's had an alu case for the dual 90 degree engine gearbox. This proved a disastrous choice of material and Amel retrofitted all early boats with a cast iron casing within 2 years. Although it is a practical solution for these boats, this 90 +90 gearbox is expensive to replace (€10000 I am told) and requires shaft seal changes every 800 hours and a possible Wear Out Bearing (WOB) change if grooves are forming on the shaft. Not difficult to do but requires a haul out. Most Amel owners carry a 36 MM wrench and a long length of pipe to remove the retaining nut off the housing ... part of the fun. Do the service right and you should not need a replacement.

I trolled the For Sale websites yesterday. Some nice oldies waiting for you. Not quite on your budget but you get what you pay for.... when you buy, do so from a broker who knows the boat. There are 2 good ones in EU and I passed their names to you earlier. But they are still brokers... so get a surveyor who knows Amels. I can recommend one in EU, he found every wrinkle on Eleuthera... :-)

GL
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Old 14-12-2014, 19:10   #35
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359 View Post
I think I can honestly say, that if an Amel owner was given the choice of a new boat or an upgrade, they would pick an Amel.
Regards. Joe .
I bought my old girl at lower price and I am spending the difference in a big refit. Let's face it, the newest SM2000 is now 10 years old and even those have some aspects which are past their "best by" date. Electronics to begin with.

Total cost?? About equal to a VG SM2000 but with all new systems. I am pleased with my decision.
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Old 15-12-2014, 05:54   #36
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Re: Difference between Amel models

We always wanted an Amel Super Maramu for over 10 years, but could not afford one, and they never came up for sale in Australia. We had a number of popular branded cruising boats in the interim, but were satisfied that they were right for our needs as we really wanted something we could completely trust to cross oceans easily and safely.

Eventually in 2011 we purchased a 2001 Super Maramu 2000 in excellent condition in the Canary Islands and sailed it back to Australia and have never looked back since.

Agree with all the comments already made on this site. These boats are robust, comfortable and sail really well in any weather and sea. On ocean legs from Canary Islands back to Australia we mostly did 170 nm days never pushing the boat or allowing the sails to touch the rigging. Because of the prop in keel position she motors beautifully and quietly too and has a massive (1200+ nm) motoring range with or Yanmar 75HP using just 3.5l per hour. In our view, with a completely sealed engine bay accessed through the cockpit floor, and exceptional sealing the boat always smells more like an apartment than all our past boats which makes it a great live aboard vessel for extended cruising.

The Amel owners forum provides far better backup than anything we have ever experienced, including that of Island Packet and other really good brands. This year for example, (for an 11 year old vessel!!!) the Amel factory in France even sent us a free replacement of a sail control switch after one of these broke (by a careless boat detailer!)

We often look at all the new brands coming out at the boat shows each year, and although some of these are really nice, we have not yet seen anything else (in any price range) that we would prefer. If we won lotto and could afford anything at all, I think we would still stick with the Amel SM2000.

In our view go for the best condition Amel you can possible afford. In the long run it will be far cheaper to maintain and run and you will always feel safe out there.

Fair winds
Colin
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Old 14-01-2015, 07:11   #37
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Fantastic to find this thread as I'm currently in ther exact same position! I have done quite a lot of desk research and narrowed down my liveaboard/long distance cruiser search to a short-list, at the top of which would be a Super Maramu (if I could afford one) but I'm hoping a good second best might be a Mango, Santorin or Maramu (non Super) although I have never been on any of these as yet. I have read as much as I can find about these boats and am yet to find any serious critisism other than upwind performance.

For me the clinchers are build quality, water tight bulkheads and other safety features, low maintenance exterior (no teak time-bombs!) and comfort for long term use. My current plan is to buy relatively cheap and re-fit to as-new or better standard (would be hard to better, let's just say modernise!) - hopefully not a false economy if I do most of the non specialised stuff myself.

Does anyone have anything negative to say about Amels or anything specific (not already mentioned above) to look out for?

I have also considered Oyster, Moody and Larger Westerly models, but have really fallen for Amels since discovering them completely accidentally.

All advice gratefully recieved

Cheers

Nick
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Old 14-01-2015, 07:22   #38
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Hello Nick,

Welcome aboard!!! Happy NY too.

When time is right, you can give me a PM. After email exchanges, you will have much more resources at your finger tip.

They are indeed not very happy on an upwind haul. But they are meant to sail RTW going west...:big grin:

Cheers
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Old 14-01-2015, 08:03   #39
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Re: Difference between Amel models

We own a 1987 Mango since 2012, and are very happy. In 4-5 months we will start the big trip.
I do miss more winches in the cockpit, have only one each side. Also, I will look into a cutter stay for emergency/ storm sail. And I am considering a furling genakker instead of the ballooner, for the reasons allready pointed out earlier in the thread.

Greeat boats, cant wait to get it on blue water

Bent, S/Y Karma, Mango #63
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:00   #40
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Re: Difference between Amel models

The only negative thing I've ever heard said about an Amel is having to get parts from France.
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:22   #41
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27 View Post
The only negative thing I've ever heard said about an Amel is having to get parts from France.
Granted... but IMO, it is no worse than any other boat manufacturer. To Amel's credit, they have approved maintenance centers in most parts of the world. Few owners have really complained on the dedicated forums.
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Old 21-01-2015, 08:29   #42
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Re: Difference between Amel models

sailed a few Amels. nice, somewhat slow , if quirky , very hard to justify the nearly 1 million dollar price tag new. ( bit less at the moment), poor chart table in my view

for that sort of money I'd let the Dutch build me a semi-custom job and not have any of the quirks of the Amel.

Dave
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Old 22-01-2015, 01:27   #43
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Perhaps you are overstating about the speed a bit. An Amel 55 finished among the leaders in the latest ARC... our own SM is as quick as my previous cruiser/racer of 46 feet.

Second thought... it is doubtful you could buy a "custom Dutch" built boat at the same price point as the newest Amel. The cost structure in NL does not lend itself to price competition. I wanted a 57 foot Trintella in alu... but way outside my budget

However, there is a VN Garcia 50 on the market now...
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Old 22-01-2015, 10:02   #44
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014 View Post
Perhaps you are overstating about the speed a bit. An Amel 55 finished among the leaders in the latest ARC... our own SM is as quick as my previous cruiser/racer of 46 feet.



Second thought... it is doubtful you could buy a "custom Dutch" built boat at the same price point as the newest Amel. The cost structure in NL does not lend itself to price competition. I wanted a 57 foot Trintella in alu... but way outside my budget



However, there is a VN Garcia 50 on the market now...

I went from a very slippery Jeanneau 39i with the performance rig to an Amel.

I met Henry Amel round 1995 at a factory visit, didn't actually realise who he was , I think he was very old even the.

Dave


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Old 28-02-2015, 22:01   #45
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Re: Difference between Amel models

Quote:
Originally Posted by offshorenick View Post
Fantastic to find this thread as I'm currently in ther exact same position! I have done quite a lot of desk research and narrowed down my liveaboard/long distance cruiser search to a short-list, at the top of which would be a Super Maramu (if I could afford one) but I'm hoping a good second best might be a Mango, Santorin or Maramu (non Super) although I have never been on any of these as yet. I have read as much as I can find about these boats and am yet to find any serious critisism other than upwind performance.

For me the clinchers are build quality, water tight bulkheads and other safety features, low maintenance exterior (no teak time-bombs!) and comfort for long term use. My current plan is to buy relatively cheap and re-fit to as-new or better standard (would be hard to better, let's just say modernise!) - hopefully not a false economy if I do most of the non specialised stuff myself.

Does anyone have anything negative to say about Amels or anything specific (not already mentioned above) to look out for?

I have also considered Oyster, Moody and Larger Westerly models, but have really fallen for Amels since discovering them completely accidentally.

All advice gratefully recieved

Cheers

Nick
I´m in the same position...trying to find my boat. SM for me is allmost complete.
2 things I don´t like. Prefer Nav Station in forward position and doublé berth in after cabin at center line. But I decided I can live with that. The 54 is out of my range. Also looked at Oysters, HR, Moody, Tayana and lot´s of others. Want that cockpit. Time wise it´s more on the hook marina etc. I´m shure I gonna find myself much more in the cockpit than below. Add the sun deck on top of the aft cabin. That´s serious playground. Look at cats. Everythings orientated to the afterdeck and fresh air. Also like the engine room. Just see no way doing without it if You wanna do serious cruising.
Still in the works for a SM and a refit might be the way to save some money. Amel fórum is great and makes such a project feasable. But if I get tired of the budget stress I will not hessitate to go for a Maramu or Santorin...same quality...just a smaller salón and cockpit. Long range cruiser. Maramu has standard 1000 L wáter and 900 L fuel. That says it all.
One thing I like a lot about the Maramu....straight shaft and gear box. So that´s less hassle with maintanance.
How ever I don´t like the size of the engine room... a lot tighter.. a definit up grade is a big wáter maker and where to install it ?? Another problem is the battery bank standard in the engine room...way to small and where to put it ?? Also she runs on 12 V while the SM runs 24 V. That´s a big difference for bow thruster and sail handling. On the other side I have not heard of issues when proper maintained.

Here is some info on the Maramu 46
Amel Maramu 46 Review: Elegant World Cruiser - Waves « Jordan Yacht Brokerage

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