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Old 21-08-2013, 05:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post

It's illegal. Over-the-ground diesel is taxed differently than marine diesel. They're different colors, and if you get busted on it, I think it's a fairly big find.

Unless you have a small fuel tank or a big truck full of gerrycans it would be a bother,

I'd do it if I were in some out of the way place that had no marine diesel, but that would be the only reason I would do it, and I'd get a written statement from the seller that there is no marine diesel available in the area.
Actually, it is the other way around.

The fuel sold at gas stations is low sulfur fuel designed to work with some of the pollution systems on new trucks. The fuel sold at marinas is "off road" higher sulphur. If you use marina fuel (high sulphur) in a road vehicle, you will be fined. I have been told that if you use the low sulphur fuel in an old Diesel engine, you may have engine issues. Keep in mind many of us have engines that are 30 or more years old in our boats. This is way longer than the life cycle of 99% of the trucks out there.
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Old 21-08-2013, 05:36   #17
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Re: Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It's illegal. Over-the-ground diesel is taxed differently than marine diesel. They're different colors, and if you get busted on it, I think it's a fairly big find.

Unless you have a small fuel tank or a big truck full of gerrycans it would be a bother,

I'd do it if I were in some out of the way place that had no marine diesel, but that would be the only reason I would do it, and I'd get a written statement from the seller that there is no marine diesel available in the area.
This is not true.

Red diesel (marine, tractor, generator, other non-road uses) may not be used in an on-the-road vehicle. No road taxes have been paid on it.

But white diesel can be freely used for off-road applications, at least from a legal point of view.

The only question is whether white diesel will be ok in a marine engine. In the UK, it has biofuel in it and it can melt hoses and seals, plus dissolves gunk in the bottom of your tank, plus it is highly susceptible to diesel bug, plus it has a limited storage life.

I don't know whether white diesel in the U.S. has bio in it or not.
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Old 21-08-2013, 05:48   #18
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Re: Diesel Fuel

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Actually, it is the other way around.

The fuel sold at gas stations is low sulfur fuel designed to work with some of the pollution systems on new trucks. The fuel sold at marinas is "off road" higher sulphur. If you use marina fuel (high sulphur) in a road vehicle, you will be fined. I have been told that if you use the low sulphur fuel in an old Diesel engine, you may have engine issues. Keep in mind many of us have engines that are 30 or more years old in our boats. This is way longer than the life cycle of 99% of the trucks out there.
High sulfur diesel is disappearing at marinas, just can't get it anymore.
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Old 21-08-2013, 10:27   #19
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Re: Diesel Fuel

Irish Rambler, yea that's what my diesel looked like. Like the sediment in the bottom of a bottle of red wine.

So its' illegal to fill my boat up with "gas station" desiel?

I see people putting it in their boats all the time down here along the coast (SE TX.) on there way to the launch. Of coarse that's gas. usually.

Wonder how much BIO diesel is in gas station diesel. ??
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Old 21-08-2013, 11:43   #20
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Re: Diesel Fuel

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Originally Posted by Flanza4 View Post
Irish Rambler, yea that's what my diesel looked like. Like the sediment in the bottom of a bottle of red wine.

So its' illegal to fill my boat up with "gas station" desiel?

I see people putting it in their boats all the time down here along the coast (SE TX.) on there way to the launch. Of coarse that's gas. usually.

Wonder how much BIO diesel is in gas station diesel. ??
1) In Florida, it is NOT illegal to put 'gas station' diesel into your boat. I can't definitively say that for all states, but I don't know of any state that has such a restriction.

2) The 'gas station' pumps I've seen dispensing BIO diesel are identified with a disclaimer 'this product contains up to 5% bio fuel'
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Old 21-08-2013, 11:52   #21
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Re: Diesel Fuel

Flanza, to be clear: the legal issue is about road taxes. Diesel fuel from the gas station pump is taxed. It's fine for any application. Red-dyed diesel is for "off road" use. The red color indicates that its price does not include road tax, so it cannot be used as to power vehicle along a public highway.

You can use either in your boat, unless you take it out on the public highway under its own power, in which case you will need to use taxed, non-dyed fuel. But if you try that, your choice of fuel will be your least concern.
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Old 21-08-2013, 11:55   #22
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Re: Diesel Fuel

Diesel ain't your daddy's diesel anymore...

bio-diesel content varies by state and region. most of the EU and Canada, as well as 6 or 7 US States have minimum bio-diesel content, varying from 2-7%. This is however, averaged over multiple refineries and multiple jurisdictions, and a calendar year. it has to be, since not all refineries have a stable and reliable feed stock source for bio-diesel year round, and not all biodiesel blends are stable in winter conditions.

The reality of this is that you NEVER know exactly what you're getting in terms of bio-content, unless you test for it. It could be up to 10% in some areas, where in many others it is 0%. ALL diesel sold for road and almost all diesel sold for non-road usage in the developed world now is ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur)- 15 ppm vs the original 3000 ppm of sulphur. If you buy in Venezuela, then you're still getting higher sulphur content. North of there - you're gonna get ULSD. This is as big a deal for us as the bio-diesel thing is too. Sulphur is the main lubricant component in diesel, and biocide in regular petro diesel. Take out sulphur, you've taken out the slippery. Refiners put slippery back in with other additives, which are all surfactants, which all bring with them a more complex chemical soup. and surfactants all bring a lot more water... which means more microbial action. ULSD simply isn't a stable fuel to store long term without polishing and active management anymore.

now most of us (as has been pointed out) run older diesels, with relatively low injection pressures and loose tolerances. They can handle some of the increased water and particulate without too many complaints. Heck my old Perkins seems to love slightly cloudy, dirty fuel... doesn't care at all it seems.

Try this with a new, common rail engine, and you'll be in for a nasty shock. injection pressures upwards of 36000 psi, extremely tight tolerances and virtually no allowance for water or particulate contamination are causing havoc in many new diesel applications already. injector tip failures, pump cavitation and corrosion are big deals with newer ULSD fuels that sit for long term, and it gets worse with biodiesel.
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Old 21-08-2013, 12:16   #23
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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post

It's illegal. Over-the-ground diesel is taxed differently than marine diesel. They're different colors, and if you get busted on it, I think it's a fairly big find.

Unless you have a small fuel tank or a big truck full of gerrycans it would be a bother,

I'd do it if I were in some out of the way place that had no marine diesel, but that would be the only reason I would do it, and I'd get a written statement from the seller that there is no marine diesel available in the area.
You have it backwards.
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Old 21-08-2013, 13:24   #24
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Re: Diesel Fuel

If you have a RED tailpipe on your diesel truck in Texas you can be ticketed for using non road taxed fuel. You can purchase non road taxed fuel at many service stations in Texas for use in farm machinery. It really POs the farmers in east Texas when they get caught and try to argue that they only did it once. It takes forever and a day to cover up the RED exhaust pipe stain.
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Old 21-08-2013, 14:04   #25
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Re: Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It's illegal. Over-the-ground diesel is taxed differently than marine diesel. They're different colors, and if you get busted on it, I think it's a fairly big find.

Unless you have a small fuel tank or a big truck full of gerrycans it would be a bother,

I'd do it if I were in some out of the way place that had no marine diesel, but that would be the only reason I would do it, and I'd get a written statement from the seller that there is no marine diesel available in the area.
Its the other way around. You will be fined if you run off road/marine in your on road vehicle. Over rood has not road tax included. I been hand carrying on road the ultra low sulfur diesel for years as it burns cleaning in the Webasto diesel boiler. On road diesel is turn more frequently than marine so its fresher/newer. I try to make use the diesel has no bio in it but its getting hard to find as time goes on. I also added 911 diesel additive, auto store, which absorbs water/moisture back into the diesel and helps prevent separation During the winter I clean/polish the fuel, and try to use/turn the fuel ever year.
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Old 21-08-2013, 14:30   #26
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Re: Diesel Fuel

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Originally Posted by Flanza4 View Post
Just some thoughts on deisel. My fuel is starting to get old? Although it does not show any signs of getting old its been in the tank a few yrs. (3-4) Boat starts fine, runs fine, no smoke. But am thinking i'm pushing my luck. I use additives (fuel stabelizers, biocides etc). filters changed, I also put in a gallon or two of new fuel from time to time to freshen it up. Just can't seem to use it all up day sailing. Was considering Starting it up in the slip put it under a little load and just let it run dry to try and get all the old fuel out.

Is that a good idea or a really bad one. May end up sucking up all the crud at the bottom of the tank if there is any.
This is the answer. Save yourself. Stop all other additives and just add "Fuel Right" to your tank. Seriously, that is all you need/should do. It's amazing stuff! You will see major differences at filter changes, which will be because you want to and not because you need to.
Fuel Right
Fuel Right Diesel & Fuel Oil Treatment, 6 oz bottle: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
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