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Old 30-09-2013, 14:23   #1
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Deriveur integrals

Well its taken me awhile to narrow down the kinds of boats I think would be a good fit for my family and I. After considering Cage George's for awhile, then twin keels, then performance cruisers like Farr's and such, I find myself particularly drawn to the French Deriveur Integrals.

If money was no object, a catamaran would be a serious consideration, but since I would like to find something $70k USD or less, I need to keep my search limited to monohulls. Ovni and Allures would be nice too, but most of those are out of my price range. I have seen some French custom built Deriveur Integrals that are in my price range.

The reasons i am attracted to this design are:
- Access to shallow anchorages, channels, etc.
- Good downwind performance for our intended cruising range in the tradewind latitudes
- Good heavy weather handling with no keel to trip the boat up (think a bar of soap floating on water)
- No worry of losing the boat if for some reason the keel is lost or damaged as the ballast is incoporated into the hull
- Most are alloy or steel which if I am going to spend $70K, I want the comfort of strength in the back of my mind. (My profession is managing RO water plants in the Caribbean so painting, maintenance, and corrosion control are my specialty )
- The French design some pretty sweet boats and I have always been a custom kind of guy, production boats are very unappealing to me

The cons I am aware of are:
- Will not point as high as a long fin keeler
- May be slightly slower on some tacks compared to fixed keel
- More maintenance required on lifting mechanisms compared to boats with fixed keels

Can anyone who owns one of these types of boats chime in on what they like/dislike about their boat. Also any other input is appreciated. I have about 6 more months to go and will then begin activley searching for a boat to move my family onto for the next 2-3 years as I continue to work in the USVI. During that time we will learn every system, do some local island hopping and get comfortable with the boat. When such time has elapsed and we feel confident, off we go for who knows how long, I'm shooting for five years. Thanks in advance for any input you can offer.

Aloha and Irie Vibes
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Old 30-09-2013, 16:00   #2
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Other cons:
- After a time, the centerboard often becomes noisy in a seaway, because the bearings and friction pads wear away.
- Sometimes, it's impossible to lower the centerboard after the boat has been beached, because mud or sand is packed hard in the well.

Alain
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Old 30-09-2013, 16:23   #3
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Why are these priced so much less than the Ovnis and Allures. Is it age?
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Old 26-10-2013, 10:21   #4
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTang View Post
Well its taken me awhile to narrow down the kinds of boats I think would be a good fit for my family and I. After considering Cage George's for awhile, then twin keels, then performance cruisers like Farr's and such, I find myself particularly drawn to the French Deriveur Integrals.

If money was no object, a catamaran would be a serious consideration, but since I would like to find something $70k USD or less, I need to keep my search limited to monohulls. Ovni and Allures would be nice too, but most of those are out of my price range. I have seen some French custom built Deriveur Integrals that are in my price range.

The reasons i am attracted to this design are:
- Access to shallow anchorages, channels, etc.
- Good downwind performance for our intended cruising range in the tradewind latitudes
- Good heavy weather handling with no keel to trip the boat up (think a bar of soap floating on water)
- No worry of losing the boat if for some reason the keel is lost or damaged as the ballast is incoporated into the hull
- Most are alloy or steel which if I am going to spend $70K, I want the comfort of strength in the back of my mind. (My profession is managing RO water plants in the Caribbean so painting, maintenance, and corrosion control are my specialty )
- The French design some pretty sweet boats and I have always been a custom kind of guy, production boats are very unappealing to me

The cons I am aware of are:
- Will not point as high as a long fin keeler
- May be slightly slower on some tacks compared to fixed keel
- More maintenance required on lifting mechanisms compared to boats with fixed keels

Can anyone who owns one of these types of boats chime in on what they like/dislike about their boat. Also any other input is appreciated. I have about 6 more months to go and will then begin activley searching for a boat to move my family onto for the next 2-3 years as I continue to work in the USVI. During that time we will learn every system, do some local island hopping and get comfortable with the boat. When such time has elapsed and we feel confident, off we go for who knows how long, I'm shooting for five years. Thanks in advance for any input you can offer.

Aloha and Irie Vibes
Yes, they will not point as well as a deep keel good modern sailboat but the difference will not be much, assuming we are not talking about a performance cruiser. They sail well and with the centerboard raised, downwind they can sometimes be faster than a modern family cruiser.

Regarding maintenance it will be more work but I don't think it will be much more.

Regarding owners information the right place it is an appropriated owner's forum:

Ovni-Club : Alubat sailboats Ovni yachts Owners Association fr

Owners of ALLURES Sailing Yachts - Forum • Index page
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Old 26-10-2013, 12:15   #5
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Re: Deriveur integrals

I like lifting keels. I think the only place I would opt out could be definitively stormy waters that could wipe a boat now and then.

b.
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Old 26-10-2013, 17:36   #6
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Many think like that but that is not true. You should have a talk with Cornell about that. He know one or two things about that type of boats and their seaworthiness:

Interesting Sailboats - Page 499 - SailNet Community
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:27   #7
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Re: Deriveur integrals

I trust 2000 pounds of lead 2 meters deep more than I trust Cornell.

b.
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Old 26-10-2013, 19:14   #8
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Re: Deriveur integrals

I trust more experience : the one of a guy that made 3 circumnavigations in different types of boats and end up choosing as the perfect passagemaker an aluminium centerboarder. The experience of those that build or the ones that circumnavigate on those voyage boats. I new a guy that had made 3 circumnavigations on the same centerboarder.

Some of those builders were very experienced cruisers and circumnavigators that wanted to put to good use its huge sailing experience building the perfect voyage boat. You don't voyage extensively and circumnavigate without getting bad weather and stormy seas specially because some of those boats are sailing in the Artic and the Antartic. High latitudes can reserve some surprises in what regards bad weather.

Those boats have a decent AVS, a decent static stability but an unbeatable dynamic stability and as you now dynamic stability is at least as important as static stability in what regards bad weather and seaworthiness.

Regarding those builders experience, for instance the one that makes the Boreal:

"Boréal was born out of 17 notebooks full of sketches, drawings and notes made by Jean-François during his first long sailing voyage with his family on a self-built 12-meter sailing boat.

« Sailing around the world with 4 kids on board, gives you a clear idea of the essentials »

That is how the first Boréal, the Boréal 50, took shape in 3D on Jean-François’ computer. But the initial project of building the « ideal » boat to take his family to Alaska soon had to be shelved. Despite his dream, two Boréal 50s were sold before the first one was even launched. And… the first sea trials confirmed that the boat met his expectations…"


http://www.voiliers-boreal.com/
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Old 27-10-2013, 06:28   #9
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Yep.

Vide my early post.

Just personal preference. I think if I were given more experience with ocean going centerboarders, I might as well opt for one.

b.
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Old 27-10-2013, 10:34   #10
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yep.

Vide my early post.

Just personal preference. I think if I were given more experience with ocean going centerboarders, I might as well opt for one.

b.
It seems we agree in two counts: If well designed they are seaworthy and they are not also my personal choice, I prefer performance cruisers with a deep draft but then I am not planning in sailing in remote places, places with ice or places where a low draft and beachable boat is a big advantage).
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:19   #11
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Thanks for all the input on this subject, much food for thought.
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Old 04-11-2013, 18:29   #12
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Re: Deriveur integrals

I am also interested in these, but it seems ones worth owning are as expensive as a cat, so I may as well stick with a multi. Seems they are worth almost double what a comparable fixed keeler is worth. But I can see the advantages even though they have many disadvantages.

They need to be much heavier than a fixed keel to keep the righting moment the same, so they will be slower for sure. Then the AVS is usually much worse than a fixed keel even with all the extra weight since the ballast has little leverage (on most models).

Southerly actually have quite a bit of weight in the centerboard which actually gives them outstanding AVS and righting moment compared to most fixed keel boats. So I expect them to sail to windward very well. If only I had more cash They are very expensive but amazing boats however they are heavy.

The Boreal also has been designed to have great righting moment and AVS by having a grounding plate/mini keel on the bottom where the ballast, tanks and engines are installed.

So I think they are all seaworthy, but some more than others.


Can anyone add to this list?

Ovni
Feeling
Allure
Alliage
Southerly

Here is an interesting Northern Comfort.



2007 Lifting keel - Northern Comfort 43 Sail New and Used Boats

Boreals nifty mini keel which allows tankage, engines and ballast to be lower to give good righting moment for less overall weight while still being beachable with shallow draft. Another expensive but excellent design.

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Old 11-01-2014, 21:48   #13
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Re: Deriveur integrals

Just a bump on this topic. Curious if there is anyone else who can chime in.
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