Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-09-2013, 00:21   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 66
Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

We saw the dismasting of an Atlantic 43. I took some pictures (Canon D7, 300mm lens, so they are decent). I did not see the dismasting myself, my wife was at the helm and called out: "They folded away their sails very quickly!". Even though we were only about 3 miles from Scheveningen harbour, they did not:
  • Have a portable VHF with them (their mast antenna was obviously in the water)
  • Have a hack-saw with them to cut the mast away.

We had working VHF radios (2 fixed, one handheld) so we used our radios to relay messages and called the KNRM (dutch royal rescue company) for them. They came on board with a hacksaw, and at this point we stopped circling them (at a safe distance, I might add) and went on with our sailing.

We saw them come back into harbour some time later, mastless. It was a sad sight.





__________________

__________________
campr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 02:03   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,242
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

Wonder what caused it. Atlantics have a reputation of being very solid blue water boats.

(And I didn't know that Den Haag had such an impressive skyline...)
__________________

__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 02:27   #3
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

wow what a shame. by the fact the guy is looking down into the boat, i am guess the mast is keel stepped? could he have overpowered?
__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 02:51   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 66
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

It was blowing 10-12 knots force 3-4. Waves around 1m high.
__________________
campr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 06:16   #5
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
wow what a shame. by the fact the guy is looking down into the boat, i am guess the mast is keel stepped? could he have overpowered?
Yes, it's a shame. Generally a keel stepped mast will leave a stub sticking up a couple meters or more with jagged edges where the mast buckled This mast is deck stepped. There is no evidence of the stub and the second picture clearly shows the mast heel looks factory cut just below the turning blocks. This looks like a classic rigging failure but hard to tell exactly what happened from the pictures because we can't see if/where the mast is buckled. It could be the mast jumped the step as there isn't any evidence the heel was fastened to the deck.
__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 06:56   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: medusa NY
Boat: Tayana Surprise 45 schooner "Union Pacific"
Posts: 2,098
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

__________________
scoobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 08:49   #7
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,024
Definitely deck stepped.
__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:08   #8
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

A component failure - an off terminal, bad backing plate, missing pin, etc.

No reason to cut rigging - haul the mast onboard with winches (If one can). Alloy boat, next to nill risk of holing the hull. Also, rigging pins can be pulled out and the whole thing jettisoned (not allowed in many waters - you will pay recovery). If you cut off the rig in haste, you lose plenty of stuff - wires, sails, etc. This is the expensive way.

I understand no handheld VHF onboard BUT no mobile phone either ??????? Rare these days!

Fab boats. Dick Zaal portfolio. I am buying one on Thursday. Wednesday is our lotto day.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 09:15   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

Pretty boat, that's a shame.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2013, 09:19   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 66
Wonder why they did not just recover the mast if it was deck stepped? It did not look bent or broken to me. You could do so by using some of the existing lines and a couple of on-deck winches.

Or am I just being silly and frugal (cheap) in trying to recover the mast for future use?
__________________
campr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2013, 12:23   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

Quote:
Originally Posted by campr View Post

(...) Or am I just being silly and frugal (cheap) in trying to recover the mast for future use?
You know it is all in the mindset. Some would try to recover, others would go straight into the life-raft and claim the insurance.

It takes all kinds.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2013, 12:55   #12
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,696
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
You know it is all in the mindset. Some would try to recover, others would go straight into the life-raft and claim the insurance.

It takes all kinds.

b.
You might be right about the mindset. However, perhaps it is more likely that the rescue service was not in a position to spend the time with them to accomplish it. Maybe with enough people on board, it would have been possible.

One problem you have is that your winches are so placed as to pull more or less horizontally, but you need to make vertical lift to get the stick back aboard. And first, you'll need to get the sails off. That means getting in the water, and that water's cold. Did they have wet suits? You need to get the boom off and back aboard, you've got the standing and running rigging to organize. If it's only the bloke and the woman, do you think that as a couple they'd be able to lift the stripped mast up onto the boat? I'd question that, too.

Now, you might be able to rig some flotation and tow it in, but that's a fairly long object to be towing in a crowded area.

Unless you've been through a dismasting, I think it's hard to imagine all the impedimenta for just two people to deal with the situation without jettisoning it. Been there, done that, clevis pin came out; and listened to superior attitude folk saying all the things one should have done. But they weren't there, and anyhow, it is the skipper's call.

Let's cut the folks from the Atlantic 43 some slack; they just had a very bad day!
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2013, 13:38   #13
Registered User
 
Wrong's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,702
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

The mast on my boat is deck stepped and designed for trailering. By no means your every day trailer sailer with a 32' 6"x8" aluminum mast. Add on the weight of wires, winches, sheaves,boom and fittings and it's heavy! Add on sails which are not easily removed in normal circumstances, I can not imagine getting the mast onto my boat if she ever suffered a dismasting. It would take at least three, probably four strong people in flat, windless conditions. Towing the whole mess would be more than difficult, if not downright impossible. Simply lowering the mast and wrestling it into position for trailering is physically challenging. But then, I'm older now too. Seems like it didn't used to be so challenging ten years ago.
__________________
Wrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2013, 16:31   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

(...)

do you think that as a couple they'd be able to lift the stripped mast up onto the boat? I'd question that, too.

(...)

Unless you've been through a dismasting, I think it's hard to imagine all the impedimenta for just two people to deal with the situation without jettisoning it.

(...)
Yes. When the mast fills with water, one is winching the mast and the water. So much depends on how it falls. I can only imagine in some cases when it is a shroud that goes, it must be a hell of a task and actually may be impossible. This is also why I do not like discontinuous rigging on multi-spreader rigs.

I lost parts of the mast (tops) before, but never the whole stick. From my friends who had their rig overboard: two saved the stick (a solo sailor, mid-ocean, a couple, also mid-ocean), one other friend lost his mast twice and he jetissoned both times (charter boat, Med).

Apparently the mast was of little value to these people and there is no penalty where they live for tossing it overboard (or else their insurance pays the entailed costs).

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-09-2013, 09:28   #15
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,696
Re: Demasting of an Atlantic 43.

"Apparently the mast was of little value to these people and there is no penalty where they live for tossing it overboard (or else their insurance pays the entailed costs)."

I'm sorry, but it is not apparent to me.

In the examples you gave, I'm really impressed! I wonder how the singlehander managed the feat all alone. Where did the event take place? Water temperature? What kind of boat? GRP? HOW did he do it? And the same questions apply for the couple. Also, what length were the masts involved?

Where the event in this thread took place is off Holland. It's just such a huge job, I mean, if it were you would you start with the genoa or the main? Would you try to limit your trips over the side? How many do you think it would take? Do you think you could do the work AND retain responsibility for the welfare of the crew, vessel, and yourself?

My point is that the decision, as barnakiel suggested may be partly that of attitude--are they "can do" people?--but that it is a complex decision into which you have to factor in the difficulty of working in the water to un-do stuff (outhall, halyards, sails, shrouds, even the slide stopper from the sailtrack, undo the boom, on and on jobs) no sunshine but not much breeze. The decision may be partly of attitude, but to suggest that they jettisoned it due to there not being a penalty for doing that seems a bit over the top to me. And it may be true that they were insured. Most people whose boats are still owned by a bank have to have insurance. I would agree that having insurance makes it an easier decision, for some people, and that that can be one component of "attitude."

But we do not know the values of the people involved in the incident, and I think it's unfair to say they didn't value their mast because they jettisoned it. I think the situation is more complex than that. Honestly, I'd love to know what their decision process was, pretty unlikely, eh? We don't even know if they tried to save it and failed.

Ann
__________________

__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.