Deciding which Autopilot I should get - Need advice

[JD-MDR]

I'm thinking of getting the Jefa sprocket driven auto pilot. From all I've gathered they are very durable and Norwegian made distributed from Seattle

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by chowdan

If it doesn't, I'm open to replacing the system with someone new. I was looking at B&G but thats looking to be roughly $4500 excluding tax(NAC-3, T2 Ram, and Triton2).

I sent a pypilot to nantucket a few weeks ago:

"Used the pilot for 95nm motoring today and I am amazed!! Steers better than my B&G system!!"

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Get a BIG drive / arm unit. Unless you only expect very light use on short costal sailing.

Very strongly second this recommendation. Like an anchor, don't go small.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JD-MDR

I'm thinking of getting the Jefa sprocket driven auto pilot. From all I've gathered they are very durable and Norwegian made distributed from Seattle

I thought Jefa was a Danish company?

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by skipmac

You can test it in place and in fact it's a better test. Just disconnect it from the AP computer and apply power direct from a 12V source as Don suggested. If you can't reach it don't use a small child, I recommend a trained octopus.

Last night i dug into the AP. I was thinking about this after i posted and thinking "I should be able to run 12v across the line running to the AP". Well I did that, I heard the ram make sounds yet I didn't see any movement in the ram. The solenoid wires are separated out from what I can see on the AP, so this may have been the cause?

[donradcliffe]

Yes.

On hydraulic autopilots, the solenoid operates a bypass valve. When the pilot is off or on standby, the valve is open and the wheel can move freely. When the valve is energized, it closes and the hydraulic pump moves the ram.

Same idea on mechanical drives, but the solenoid operates a clutch which disengages the gear train in the ram.

The solenoids also operate on 12v dc.

[evm1024]

With the solenoid not energized the fluid is allowed to flow through the solenoid body. i.e. with the AP disengaged.

Thus when you turn the helm the ram moves and pushes fluid out one side and pulls it in the other. This fluid flows through the hoses up to the pump body and because the solenoid is not engaged through the solenoid thus bypassing the pump. There is "little" resistance to the movement of the ram.

With the solenoid engaged the fluid does not bypass the pump and thus any movement of the ram is prevented. Of course when the pump runs one way or the other fluid is moved to the ram and the ram moves.

When you run the pump with the "bypass" solenoid disengaged the fluid that the pump pumps goes through the solenoid and not to the ram.

As a side note - my setup has a manual valve at the ram that when open connects the 2 sides of the ram to each other. This is a manual bypass that allows the rudder to move with even less resistance. The fluid going from one side of the ram to the other has only to travel to the bypass valve and back rather to the bypass solenoid and back. Less resistance (better feel of the rudder too) and as a safety feature should the bypass solenoid fail. If the solenoid fails engaged then it would be impossible to manually steer the boat.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Yes.

On hydraulic autopilots, the solenoid operates a bypass valve. When the pilot is off or on standby, the valve is open and the wheel can move freely. When the valve is energized, it closes and the hydraulic pump moves the ram.

Same idea on mechanical drives, but the solenoid operates a clutch which disengages the gear train in the ram.

The solenoids also operate on 12v dc.

Good to know! I'll have to pull the solenoid wires and test to see if it works! Made me very happy to hear the ram make noises though

[JD-MDR]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I thought Jefa was a Danish company?

I think you are right. I knew someone was going to correct me on that. Don't pay attention to my personal comments. I just wanted to mention the Jefa steering systems. I've read so much good things about them. I am planning to order one for my Edson worm drive steering next month I was hoping to get some comments or critiques

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JD-MDR

I think you are right. I knew someone was going to correct me on that. Don't pay attention to my personal comments. I just wanted to mention the Jefa steering systems. I've read so much good things about them. I am planning to order one for my Edson worm drive steering next month I was hoping to get some comments or critiques

Norway, Denmark, Sweden??? One of them Scandinavian places.


I have also been researching the Jefa which is why I recalled Denmark. I believe they also supply drives to some of the AP makers as OEM. If you learn anything more about the Jefa would love to hear about it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by chowdan

Good to know! I'll have to pull the solenoid wires and test to see if it works! Made me very happy to hear the ram make noises though

As long as it isn't making grinding, tearing noises.

[CarlF]

To the question about Jeffa. I have one of their direct drive units and love it. Advantages:

Very reliable. No maintenance. No leaks. No air.

Very strong. Very precise. There's no slop in the system.

Much quieter than hydraulic pumps.

No drag on the steering when off

Very low battery load compared to hydraulics. Makes a big difference when sailing.

When you disengage the autopilot it doesn't suddenly throw the full rudder weight at the wheel. It waits for you to turn the wheel a bit before it lets go.

The primary negative is they aren't cheap.

It comes in several versions with essentially the same motor including a sprocket drive.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I sent a pypilot to nantucket a few weeks ago:

"Used the pilot for 95nm motoring today and I am amazed!! Steers better than my B&G system!!"

I was looking at the pypilot project. Seems very interesting, especially since I work in the software industry. I will reach out to you via PM as i'd be interested in doing some testing. I believe open source can result in a far superior product than closed source

[CarinaPDX]

For a controller I recommend looking at the Pelagic autopilot; inexpensive and very good at steering a straight line. The big name brand AP's often have more features, like waypoint and route following, and display of a wide range of data such as speed, heading, L/L, etc. If you just want a no-frills AP then go with the Pelagic or pypilot and save yourself a ton of money and still get the job done well. You can always use some of that money to buy a multi-purpose display, 4" and up, from most of the instrument companies as well as Maretron. Or if you really like FOSS then use a small Arm computer like the Raspberry Pi with OCPN and a small display, and STILL be ahead financially.

Greg

[chowdan]

Turns out after last nights testing, it appears the ram fully functions! Energizing the solenoid is all that was needed for the system to turn the wheel!

Now I need to dig into what sort of pilot i want, and what sort of older generation I'll be able to pair up with my existing system.

Pelagic AP looks pretty good. Due to work I dont know i'd have time to fuss with a system like PyPilot(atleast this quarter or next), so something that is relatively P&P would be my first thought.

Features like sailing based on wind would definitely be nice as well but not required, though I have a feeling as we move more towards full time cruising and doing crossings, we may want that feature.

I did find on ebay a Simrad AP20 control head, J300X junction box, RC25 compass, RF300 rudder position. Only need to add the ram with a starting bid of $115. Seems like a great deal BUT i believe this system would be from the mid 90's.... Seems like for a $200 system it'd work great, but lack many features of the new system and lack updates(as Pelagic AP's would have).

More I research off the shelf system, it appears I refuse to pay $4000 for a new system, and Pelagic/PyPilot looks more appealing.