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Old 09-10-2009, 08:50   #1
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Deborah's Boat Sank...Need Advice!

I am starting this new thread for Deborah so that she can get the help she needs.

Posted today, Oct 09, to a previous very old thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molamolagirl View Post
Hi my name is Deborah.. Hamilton Ont.. I have a cs 37 that sunk.. in water 6-7 hrs.. she is now raised.. fresh water.. I read your concerns about engine, drain lubricate.. concerns of effluent water..rotted sections later.... humidifier or heater to dry???drying everything.. can you tell me more.. Im a diver .. is it too obvious a question about getting in water to check hull, bearing etc etc.. any more info would be great thanx..
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Originally Posted by David M View Post
Deborah,
Fortunately it was fresh water and only for 6-7 hours, which does make a difference short term and long term. The engine might even be salvageable if you get the water out ASAP and get it lubed back up and running. Disassemble all your electronics now and hit them with electronics cleaner...that MAY save some of them if they were not powered up when the water hit them. Don't spray them with WD-40. Electronics cleaner accelerates the water evaporation, WD-40 might lock in the water. I have saved a few printed circuit boards on oceanographic equipment by doing this.

Get some forced draft ventilation down there immediately (a great big box fan pointing down over a deck hatch), remove everything that is loose, open all hatches and cabinet doors. Some things will be ruined and there is nothing you can do to save them. You have the idea. It could still be a good boat and the quicker you act the better off you will be.

I'm going to create a new thread for you...this is obviously an urgent matter and you deserve better attention from the members.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:06   #2
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Good advice, David. Some info on the time of the sinking would be helpful. I think saving the engine/tranny is priority #1, electronics #2, clearing and airing the boat in the meantime. Generator? Can't think of anything else at the moment, other than identifying the cause of the sinking.

edit: On the engine, get the water out, change the oil at least three times and get it running ASAP. Get a good mechanic on it ASAP.
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Old 09-10-2009, 13:22   #3
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How deap was the water she sank in? The pressure of the water, if deep, may have, throughj acppilary action, infiltrated the wiring. Frotunately it was fresh water and that will dry in time.
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Old 09-10-2009, 13:59   #4
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The more help you can round up the better, as you need to take a lot of things apart and dry them before they corrode. In addition to the previous advice:

If you have a source of compressed air, use an air jet to blow the water out of whatever you can, especially motors (like alternator, windlass, pumps), but also cabinets, stove, reefer....a wet/dry shop vac may also be useful.

Wet electronics should be dissassembled and dried with a hair dryer.

Remove covers from cushions, squeeze the water out, and air dry the foam.

Remove headliner if possible
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Old 09-10-2009, 14:27   #5
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make certain when checking the engine after the drying out and oil changing, after running check the oil again, check for white colouration in the oil and smoke.
I hope it all goes well for you.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:06   #6
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David - Do you know where she is? Access to a Marina? Is it on the hard now? What location - current atmospheric conditions make a huge difference.

My company specializes in disaster recovery for data centers and flood is one of the top two (fire is #2) causes of outages after human error/sabotage.

The side effect of Katrina is the ability to recover from serious flooding has made leaps in the past couple of years. A specialty flood recovery company can help her now - but be careful as there are fly by nights and a boat is not a house on the water. If they don't know that - be very careful.

Triage is the key - not favorites or sentimental value - dollars. The sentimental photo from 1968 of you and your grandfather on Everest can be recovered a week from now. The engine is dying by the minute. Focus on the engine and electronics. First, shut off the main circuit if it is on. "Warming equipment" is a misnomer - at least at this phase.

If you are unable to work on the engine - call the pros. Let them pull it if need be but don't let anyone start it. Even if it is "just to see if it will"

Air is now the enemy.
Strangely, while most electronics are not covered for flood loss, the majority have a natural coating as part of the assembly process that gives you more time than 20 years ago.

For those of you old enough this is going to sound like a shopping list from MacGyver...
1. 5 gallon buckets - at least four
2. 100 lbs of uncooked rice
3. 2 gallons of rubbing alcohol - 91% or better. If you need to - ask the pharmacist.
4. Lawn size garbage bags (35 gal?)
5. Paper towels - lots of them as this is not going to be a "Green day"
6. A wet/dry vacuum 5 gal is enough. Bigger will just get in the way.
7. Beg/Borrow and buy as many dehumidifiers as you can. (well- 4 is probably the limit on your boat size) - the best ones will drain via hose but you have no bilge pump for now.
8 Duct tape (because every disaster is cured using duct tape)

You cannot dry everything at once, so you are trying to buy yourself time.
- Pull all the electronics and put them into towels - wipe off exterior moisture.
- Pour the alcohol into the bucket and do the illogical - put in the component. You are unlikely to get the alcohol into all the nooks and crannies that 6 hours did, but the you only need to give it a 30 seconds and swirl it a little.
- Pull it out and wipe it off with a paper towel. If you feel moisture on the towel, keep at it with a clean paper towel. [side note: One of the guys here had good luck "vacuuming parts." If you try that make it quick and move on - but no moisture should be felt when you are done]
- Pour about two inches of rice into a dry bucket put your electronic item in, open any door or compartment EXCEPT disk drives. Then 2 more inches. repeat until done.
- When the bucket is full, put it into a garbage bag, use a vacuum to suck out the air and tape it shut.
- Keep it shut for a day or so. When you pull things out, vacuum to remove the rice.

All you did was buy time, the alcohol will displace water, and the rice will be absorbing moisture. There are moisture displacing sprays (we have radio shack here that can help, but YMMV depending on your location. As pointed out earlier WD40 is NOT the right option here.)

Next - everything that can/did absorb water that is not impossible to remove must get off the boat. Beyond pads and the headliner, the towels in the drawer, the toilet paper roll, pads, etc. You want to strip the boat down to the wood, fiberglass and metal. The only thing left that can hold water should have been a tree in a former life.

Bring in the dehumidifiers - set them on high and plan to check them very couple of hours until you see the fill rate. Empty them, repeat. If it is a high humidity environment outside, you will want to close up the boat. YES - it is counter intuitive, but it is necessary to prevent the dehumidifiers from attempting to dry the atmosphere first.

Depending on weather, you may need to adjust accordingly. If you are in a low humidity or cooler air environment, large warming fans may be better. For example: Blue Blower BB PB2500 Commercial Grade Fan, 3 Speed - 2500 CFM | Blowers and Shop Heaters Large volumes of hot air. HOT low humidity fast moving Air is best. Electric heat is a low humidity heat.

The stuff you threw outside is going to be your next project. Everything is different so it depends on what it is and how much you are willing to spend to save it. The pad, will be a buy new. The picture of you on Everest - that is a sentimental choice.

Until your boat is dry it is a toxic environment. Spend as little time inside as possible. While it is drying it is off gassing, oil from the engine may be on surfaces, diesel and the holding tank probably leaked as well so bacteria may spike. Mold should be under control as it has only been a day, but you will need to watch.

There are far more scientific methods to accomplish this task with likely better results. Unfortunately, you are not going to be able to buy argon gas or 100 lbs of silica gel. But that is OK. You can do something.

Once it is drying, you need to consider what is next. You have oil to clean up, the water lines are compromised, the gas lines need to be checked, etc. All of that can be done over time - which is all you are trying to buy in the first 72 hours.

GOOD LUCK.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:17   #7
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to kefaa

that was amazing
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:29   #8
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Re: Bulk Silica Gel

Actually.....
Veritemp

And it can be dried out in the oven (at LOW heat) and reused.
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Old 09-10-2009, 17:10   #9
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Deb in Canada...sunken cs 37 update

and the 2 days if that is okay..any feedb

Ok.. The boat was in fact under water total time 12 hrs.. took 5 bilge pumps..she is up.. My heart broke.. where to start..

So I thought cleaning with fungazides on all canvas, bleached all lines drug out sea anchor emptied cockpit.. also had a drough..lost of nylon sheer.. fungazide sprayed...The humidifier is working and we have drier..2 fact.. All salon seats out on deck, mattress , pillows.. I sprayed everthing and since there is a cold rain. pouing I rolled it and let it rain on all as a rinse or should all of the above be cover with plastic.. you cant get this things any more wet, limps, mold..

Now after talking with Agent.. !We get her out of the water.. 2 days tops,,we found a dry building not far but have to move her.. 20 miles.. Marina wanted us to sit in the water 2 weeks till he could get to the job... Dundas offers dry room, big vans , heaters warm moving air.. Also bins.. as you said some things are bins for salvagable stuff and one for trash destroyed... Ahh Chartes, manuels , and on .. u know I guess..

Anther question.... When I pulled out the cushions.. i fungasided??but im think it aint happening.. when I lifted the cover ..the threads left go..crap right..The foam formed lower lumber seats..soaked and form calaped.. I was told you can use formoulding for new stuff.. but when it breaks downlike that and we only have 2 cushions rest distroyed.. scap and start fresh????

Agent felt electrical would be okay..very doughtful..we ill work on that with them.. and pickling engine..esterbeak.. Can any of this wait till she is on the hard in 2 days or do we keep at it dry, cleaning , salvage ,humidiy..or get her somewhere warm and all the bins.. I really hear u when u said engine ,,NOw..agreed.. electrical.. I will keep you posted..

Last quest i see wd 40 and lubricant used in same sentence,, and then of you see dont.. I thought wd broke down tight stuff.. Lubricant keep supple etc.. which is more right..

May be getting good money for Raymarie products toasted.. Any thing comparable for less.. Great place really but any new electronics out there for dpth sog, knots , gauges you know right..better value...

I will have more questions but doe it sound moving in right direction..I know challenges ahead and any proactive way to handle what is coming up any info appreciated from all.. David thank you..ember long time..great guide and article..Thanks everyone,..Deborah
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Old 09-10-2009, 17:17   #10
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Any help appreciated.. Rainy cold here..sad... But stem to stern we get her done.. or walk away.. 37' , 90.000 so we see what happens....Thanks Deborah
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:22   #11
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Just a note on the electronics...You should try and do what Kefaa said to save them but if they had 12v applied to them at the time of sinking, you should NEVER rely on these electronic parts again, even if they seem to work.

Very often you can dry out the board immediately with alcohol and rice, but after 7 hours underwater with 12v working its electrolysis magic on them they will not last long or be intermittent and unreliable.

The rest of the advice is good! The engine should ideally get a removal and teardown to properly clean not just the water but all the junk inside the water off all the components.

Agree about the dehumidifiers. They are not that expensive to just rent from a restoration company and they have the good ones with a hose that drains the water.

Seal the boat up as mentioned and let those things do their job. (Having stripped the boat down prior as mentioned).

Good luck!
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:31   #12
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How you dry it out depends. It depends on the relative humidity. You want to maximize the difference between the relative humidity of the boat and the outside atmosphere. If you put heaters or desiccants inside the boat and the difference in the relative humidity between inside and outside is not significant, then consider opening up the boat and getting the forced draft fan over a hatch to maximize the evaporation. Whichever way maximizes the difference is the best way.
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Old 09-10-2009, 19:49   #13
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I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression. Doing this merely increases her chances of saving things, just being under water is an issue. However, better to do something than wish you had two weeks from now. A couple of people have made some good points and I want to follow up on them as well as Deborah's questions.

- To the PM, 195 proof is 95% alcohol, but I am unsure if it is the same alcohol and what that other 5% would be that might be worse than the water used to dilute rubbing alcohol. Sorry - I guess I don't drink enough.

- WD40 is a good lubricant and does displace water however it is not a great electronics dryer. So use it for lubrication and even displacement on metal but not on electronics.

- Fungicides applied now won't hurt. To improve the chances, setup a dry room with dehumidifier and put them on racks and flip a couple of times a day. If cushions are saturated try rolling them to get the most water out. I am sorry but the chance of saving them is minimal so you may want to spend your time elsewhere.

- Don't dry the cushions with the boat, humidity is like zincs - the path of least resistance. Dry the boat - cushions are cheap (or cheaper)

- Electrical may be OK, once things dry out have a resistance test run from the main breaker to the end of each line (including back to the batteries). It will locate ones that are bad. As you will not have a baseline you are looking for ones that vary greatly from the rest, but don't pull anything functional yet. These are your baseline.
Keep the numbers and have it done again in six and 12 months. It will tell you which are going bad and need to be replaced. Once you see someone due it, you can do it yourself with an ohm meter.

- Fishman. I meant it is unlikely to be found close to her, at 6pm on a Friday night. I was going to suggest a florist because they dry flowers, but all things being equal, rice is the fastest option.

- anathema. I agree. Sometimes you can get lucky and the breaker or main fuse blows eliminating the current. Freshwater helped too.

- To donradcliffe's point. The shopvac (item #6), will be moving large volumes of air. They can be used to dry things off. Harder the wind the better and still put it into the rice. (alcohol then blow off then rice)


- Deborah. A few comments based on your message.
- That you are acting at all is a great start. In the moment, living the event, it is easy to do nothing. You may have turned a total loss into a recoverable event. In Disaster Recovery we call that a success. Heck - in life we call those a success.
- Stay optimistic and recognize you are living on Adrenalin. It will wear off, you will crash, you will probably be sick, its natural.
- Remember to eat and sleep. These are the #1 reason for pulling failure out of the jaws of success.
- You have done what you can, and in the end, you can second guess yourself until the end of days - but it will not change a thing.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:30   #14
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Day 2

Well we rose the boat..5 pumps and spent yesterday hauling evrything out..even spiders..i did try to save a few..heartbreaking seeing everything floating, manuels, pictures CHARTS ugh... as it is cold and rainy here the humidity would be the same as in the boat i think right. Im heading out now to go at it again. There is still water in sinks, bilges, everywhere so pumping everything again, maybe leave hatches open to circulate air would be good.. If it warms up outside that would be good.. I then will get the humidifier and heater going again.. Great stuff about electronics.. Im getting supplies, rice etc and get that going.. and of course pickle engine..The owner of marina wanted the boat to sit for 2 wks till he could haul her out..he is busy now!!!!!!..I found a dry storage and will haul there and get the fans and heaters on and get bins filled good stuff...junk... etc.. Im worried..well about everything , but none of the compartments will open..swollen with water.. will they warp, every be the same..she looks..weird crooked inside ..could be my brain.. Update later everyone.. thanks so much lots to do but nice to have imput to get a plan working..Insurance agent is okay but we will see what happens right..thanks everyone .. have a good one..deb
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Old 10-10-2009, 19:54   #15
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There is a product called "Corrosion X" which is good for electronics that have been submerged. You actually can bathe the circuit boards and stuff in this product and sometimes recover the item. Their demo's at the boat show is a fish tank full of the Corrosion X with a toy electric train running under the surface. However. LCD panels are toast. LCD screens are not sealed along their edges and liquid wicks into the sandwich and shorts out the screens. So any electronics with LCD screens are generally toast unless you are willing to spend the money to send them back to the factory. Normally the repair costs exceed the Ebay costs of buying a replacement.
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