CSY 44 Walk Over

[capt lar]

We are looking for a live aboard and heading to the islands. We are old enough and torn up enough to make living comfort a high priority on our list. We are looking at center cockpits so we can get that big bed in an aft cabin. When we leave listing lying around, our grown kids are quick to check out the number of berths so we know they will find us and visit. Budget is under 200K - it was lower when we started and it could be higher by the time we are done. Any opinions on the CSY 44 and any other boats that should be on my list would be a great help.

[Talbot]

Living comfort should always be a very high priority cause otherwise the fun of cruising will soon pall. Personally I reckon the CSY is a bit short of hulls, but then I like to live upright!

[ssullivan]

If you are looking for a CSY 44, there is a user on here called CSYMan who has a neighbor with one for sale. I believe it's in Florida.

[capt lar]

Talbot - I am also looking at cats, but I keep coming up with two issues. #1 is the cost when compared to a 45' leaner (the way real men have always sailed) and #2 - I find most of the cats may have a double, but not many queen sized berths and most seem to put the bed hull to hull (to hull to hull) so I feel like I am in a box. The money thing is the age old how much to spend vs how long gone. The comfort thing is key. Can you recommend any 40' used cats with true queen ?
I know there are some new owner versions coming out, but I do not want to spend more than 250K sail away whether I am leaning or flat.

[Pblais]

Welcome to the list.

I own a CSY 33 as does CSY Man as well. You can talk to the folks that own them if you like and I can say they will tell you a lot of why they like them.

If you head to:

http://www.topica.com/lists/csy/read

That will put you into the CSY list. It includes mostly CSY 44's as they made more of them than the 33, 37 and the Pilot houses plus more rare ones too. They also made a walk through in lessor quantities than the walk over. You can read a lot of postings and you'll also find Grandma Beasely's list of whats currently for sale. She is sort of an unoffical person that does this and a very nice person along with her husband Bob. They stopped by last summer and I spent the evening over dinner with them and toured their 44. I've been on a other few 33's as well.

These are baswically 1980 boats in various stages of repair. The better ones will be in your budget plus leave room for extra gear purchases. They allways look good pulling into a marina and you won't win the ugly boat contest either.

I like our 33 for probably for the same reasons they like the 44. CSY man will extoll the virtues at length. You won't find me in disagreement. They are roomy boats. My 33 has the same size saloon as the 44 does and that part I really do enjoy at anchor.

They are all solid fibreglass and that does make them on the heavy side and of course a bit slower than modern sloops. They will all take more punishment than you you should ever experience in your life. I've had ours 2 years and last fall we saw our first 30+ knot winds on the water. They take big air really well.

Of course if you have any questions I would be ahppy to answer them as will most any CSY 44 owner too.

[capt lar]

thanks - great link. CSY 44 is definately a possible. We are also looking at a Bristol 45.5 - more $ and newer hull - any opinions are appreciated - coastal and caribe with some offshore.

[rakuqueen]

We have been living on a tayana 42cc for the last
two years, it has been wonderful. Jim is 6'2" so he wanted to be able to stand up, and have a bed long enough. The aft cabin has a kingsize bed. There are a few for sale at yachtworld, take a look.

Jane

[Euro Cruiser]

Lar, I can't imagine putting a 'Walkover' design together with 'Livingaboard Comfort' - those two are mutually exclusive for many people.

Your cruising plans can be accommodated by almost any boat. And when you're down in the islands, you'll find almost every kind of boat. But smaller and more underpowered, fatter, multi-hulled and poorer sailing boats do struggle more to do the windward miles required to get to the Eastern Caribbean.

Jack

[capt lar]

Thanks Jane - Tayana is already on my short list.
Jack - comfort is specific to being able to sleep with old bones and bad shoulders - we can handle the walk over. I am just back from the islands and certainly every type of vessel is there. I agree with your assessment of the other compromises - no boat, at least in my price range, does it all. We have raised our budget because we will not make as many compromises this time around. As to multi hull - you may not point as high, but you are moving much faster. I wonder who would get to the Baths faster from St. Tom with the wind on the nose. I would bet on the cat. Capt Lar

[Jon D]

Latitute 38 has had a number of discussions on the windward issue. The conclusion still seems to be as I recall that a good mono will beat a cat of the same length upwind.

I would bet that my Moody47 would beat a "Cruising Cat of the same waterline" on that journey upwind.

We chartered a Moorings 38 cat a few years ago and upwind it was not that great. Closest wind angle we could carry was 42-45 degrees I think?? And that was pushing it. At 42 we are starting to foot off and really build hull speed pinching for us is 33-35 degrees. Rarely did we see speeds in excess of 7 knots. OTOH though it was a great at anchor party platform.

[Euro Cruiser]

In the abstract, I don't know if Jon's statement (mono always beating multi to windward) is universally true. But you aren't around cruising multihulls long before you discover the dirty little secrets that a) they can't carry weight and offer significantly higher speeds (let's say a factor of 1.3+); b) weight destroys what latent ability the design has to get to windward; and c) cruising boats, including multis, need to carry weight. If the Baths are dead to windward, the multi will usually live to fight another day rather than bang down the channel.

I remain unconvinced you can suffer old bones and bad shoulders, and yet will find it 'comfortable' - day in, day out, 24/7 - to hump it up, into, through and down from the cockpit to reach the galley or chart table. Perhaps chartering a sistership for a week would be worth it?

Have you considered a Pearson 422 or 424? Personally, I find the 422 to have the lines of a beached whale, but then I'm biased.

Jack
WHOOSH, Pearson 424 lying St. Katharine's Haven, London

[Jon D]

Jack

Would agree not all mono would beat multi. Reference was to either a 'performance' cruiser or racer. Other factor I believe is the motion of a multi in a seaway. I personnally did not like it when we chartered.

Back on topic though -- I would seriously look at that Bristol over the CSY. If I recall correctly CSY's were originally designed to be charter boats - max volume etc. I also agree with Jack's comment re: walkover - up down up down etc...

The Bristols were always designed to be cruising boats and I feel a better constructed boat overall. Also I think a Ted Hood design which should sail really well.

Owners group http://members.aol.com/bristolyht/

[capt lar]

Thanks for the feedback. I hope to look at two Bristols this week. One is a ketch rig with running back stays so I not sure if it is a real option. (opinion?) The other is standard cutter. I will check out Pearson, assuming the cost is much lower. I drove a power cat (free loaner from marina that did not have my boat ready) and, at least under power, I found turning and normal boat handling to feel odd - kind of skitter rather than cut through the water. Nevertheless - enough extra room to make it worth checking out, but from your comments, maybe not worth paying 6K to charter for a week.
Also, I am surprised to hear you say the cat won't point. We were on a Pearson 36 and watched cats pass us, pointing lower, but still making more progress to windward. Ours was older with poor sails, so perhaps it was not an honest comparison.
Capt Lar

[capt lar]

Jack - did you see the size of the aft cabin in the 422 - that's my kind of room, and I think, as white whales go, she is sleek. Beauty is in the eye (or shoulders) of the owner. Boats are older than I prefer, but the price would leave alot more $ in the kitty. Thanks for the tip. Oh yeah - the 424 is nice too - if I was 35 instead of 53. Capt Lar

[Euro Cruiser]

Lar, the 422's aft cabin is what Pearson went to (from the 424) when folks started craving the 'Center Queen'. Re: age and price, many 422/424 hulls have now gone thru at least one full-up refurb, and with some patience you will find the choices that seem suitable for you. There are more 424's, I believe, but the 422 owner's website might be worth checking out. (The 424 one seems dead...)

Re: running backstays, I presume that's for the mizzen? If so, I would think that only a minor issue. Tending to them on a mizzen is easy. Also, don't forget they become your double-duty outboard derrick when its time to power the dink; lifting the outboard off the pulpit and lowering it couldn't be easier than with a running backstay, perhaps aided by the boom if it's a big monster.

Good luck on the search!

Jack