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Old 02-05-2010, 17:41   #16
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Glad you are OK,Mexico IS at war, just as you say James, there is a lot of violence right now because of the terrible drug cartel war, you'd be amazed how many people are being killed , Mexicans, Americans, women, children, police , everyone.. a staggering amount.
I would like to narrow this down a bit and say that the Mexican border is at war. I don't want people to get the wrong idea and think that the whole country is a war zone. The majority of it is a very safe place and is still very much open to cruisers. Believe me those people need our money.
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:33   #17
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might the term "war," as applied here, be hyperbolic?

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Mexico IS at war, just as you say James, there is a lot of violence right now because of the terrible drug cartel war, you'd be amazed how many people are being killed , Mexicans, Americans, women, children, police , everyone.. a staggering amount.
I spent two weeks in the Sea of Cortez last month, my second trip down there in 2010, and I can assure everyone that Mexico is not at war. While I would not want to make light of the problem of drug-cartel violence, this is not a problem likely to effect cruisers, especially cruisers who stay out of the most touristy areas such as Acapulco or Cabo San Lucas.

I'm not sure what amounts to a "staggering" death toll. In 2009, 69 people lost their lives as a result of this violence. Eight out of every nine of these victims were members of the drug cartels themselves.
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Old 02-05-2010, 18:43   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Mexico IS at war, just as you say James, there is a lot of violence right now because of the terrible drug cartel war, you'd be amazed how many people are being killed , Mexicans, Americans, women, children, police , everyone.. a staggering amount.
I spent two weeks in the Sea of Cortez last month, my second trip down there in 2010, and I can assure everyone that Mexico is not at war. While I would not want to make light of the problem of drug-cartel violence, this is not a problem likely to effect cruisers, especially cruisers who stay out of the most touristy areas such as Acapulco or Cabo San Lucas.

I'm not sure what amounts to a "staggering" death toll. In 2009, 69 people lost their lives as a result of this violence. Eight out of every nine of these victims were members of the drug cartels themselves.
I'm inclined to question your source for the number of deaths in 2009, Bash. Here's a pretty in-depth look at the problem by the Los Angeles Times over the three years to June 9, 2009:

Mexico's Drug War - Stories, Photos, Videos - Mexico Under Siege - World News - Los Angeles Times

Obviously, their figure of 10,031 deaths can't be reconciled with your number of 69 for 2009. And, as the graphic makes clear, the problem isn't confined to the areas adjacent the US border.

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Old 02-05-2010, 19:02   #19
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erratum

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Obviously, their figure of 10,031 deaths can't be reconciled with your number of 69 for 2009. And, as the graphic makes clear, the problem isn't confined to the areas adjacent the US border.
I was unclear, and for that I apologize. The number I quoted was supposedly of non-cartel victims last year. After reading the LA Times article Tao Jones quoted, I double checked my original source, and it seems not to include police mortality. The difficulty with police mortality is determining which of the police where actually members of the cartels. However, the number I proposed seems soft when compared with the LA Times report.

So, I'll withdraw that number. However, I would still insist that the term "war" is hyperbolic. I've made two trips so far this year to the state of Baja California Sur, a destination to which I've been traveling frequently for some years now, and I've encountered nothing even close to a state of war. Nor did I at any time fear for my personal safety. La Paz, an active cruiser destination, is something of a base of operations for my trips down there, and the only effects of the drug cartel violence you'll see there is the depression of the tourist industry.

Again, I don't want to underplay the violence. But I simply don't see where it's involved the cruising community at this point.
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:30   #20
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You made two trips down there this year? No wonder you are calling yourself Bash, I assume you are referring to the trips you made back.

I do think it is important not to underplay the violence down there right now. It is equally important though not to overplay it and scare cruisers away. I was down there this year and spend a week in Ensenada which is relatively close to the border. At no time did I feel unsafe. Neither did we feel unsafe while staying in San Quintine.
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:44   #21
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I clarify once again.

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You made two trips down there this year? No wonder you are calling yourself Bash, I assume you are referring to the trips you made back.
I've jetted down both times this year. On my most recent trip I was accompanied by 16 undergraduate students, and we explored the Sea of Cortez via sea kayak. I do a lot of teaching down there, and don't usually have time to engage in the full Baja bash.
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Old 02-05-2010, 21:44   #22
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At no time did I feel unsafe. Neither did we feel unsafe while staying in San Quintine.
I would not encourage anyone to live in fear. But feeling safe is not always the same as being safe. I've been caught clueless in the wrong place/wrong time.

Last week, big riot here in Indonesia when someone experssed his frustrations with the locals.

I see it this way.

Have fun.
Don't do anything stupid.
Be aware.... the best you can.
No guarentees.
Have fun
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Old 02-05-2010, 22:11   #23
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I would not encourage anyone to live in fear. But feeling safe is not always the same as being safe.
Fair enough. I think James has exhibited that for us. Just because carrying a gun makes you feel safe does not mean that you are safe from being thrown in jail.
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Old 02-05-2010, 22:15   #24
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I don't want to enter into the rights or wrongs of guns on board BUT I do want to say in defense of Mexico: I live here, in central Mexico (Guanajuato) during the summer and on my boat in Puerto Vallarta in the sailing season. I have NEVER had any problems here with anyone. The drug violence is on the border, not all over the country, stay away from those areas, use common sense when traveling and you will enjoy this friendly beautiful country!
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Old 02-05-2010, 23:30   #25
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Hey Jim!

Glad to see you are out of the clink! Didn't have to kiss the prisoner boss?

Not all days cruising are diamonds but sure as hell we get into memorable situations!

I hope everything works out and you can get everyone out quickly and safely.

All the best


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Old 03-05-2010, 09:09   #26
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Thanks Nick We are just waiting for the winds to calm at bit and we will head directly for Roatan. Any recommends there?

See you in Shelter later this month....
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:17   #27
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The drug war and violence and kidnappings are not limited to the border areas. I assure you of that. Remember I was in the prison and was told many things I will never repeat.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:56   #28
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Panamajames, if you are going to Roatan, head to the little town of west end. It's beautiful, free moorings and all the diving you can stand. There is a great little resteraunt on the main road in westend. I forget the name, but the have a big grill in front, right at the road. The do the best seafood. Can't miss sundowners for sunset drinks.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:57   #29
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In newspaper today, they ignored me when I declared weapon

EXHIBEN ERRORES DE LA ADUANA (customs) de Cancun




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outset abroad showed the staff of the Permissible to bear arms and other original documents, but ignored him and sent to the court: Authority.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:06   #30
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I have said elsewhere before that this is my real fear of traveling anywhere...rather by land, air, or sea..Getting cross threaded with local authorities for whatever reason...Its not the people I fear its all the little Hitlers running around.
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